WildRose
Well-Known Member
No, you don't "get it" and you apparently don't read very well either.
6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?
- Thread starter fariswm
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Finally watched the video. The only good shot he made was the last one. the rest were in the hindquarter, you can see it in the video and right before he barrels down the hill he doesn't use his back leg. Probably didn't pack that hindquarter out. This is just a case of crappy shooting and nothing more.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
My count is one shot off camera in the gut from his reaction. 3 just in front of the right hip at about the point of the hip, one in the hind quarter and finally one decent shot in the crease behind the shoulder.
Looks like a bad case of buck/bull fever and a blown wind call but at least he stayed with him, kept following up and finally put a decent shot into him.
Capt RB
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 1, 2014
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So let's see a 6.5 creed starts out with the correct throat and twist to take advantage of the latest bullets and a few that were not out yet that are better ballisticlly is a bad thing? It's a slow target 6.5 that doubles as an excellent youth lady hunting rifle with excellent ballistics in an accurate platform. I say that because i haven't seen nor heard of any creeds that shot like crap yet. Sectional densities that rival alot of the biggest bullets from the smasher class of magnums but because it isn't 100 years old it sucks. Ok got it.
The fact that 4 guys or now 3 guys according to the op lost elk due to using the creed with no other information is funny. I recovered about 200 "lost deer" with my plott hound Jake. Of those 200ish deer about 98% were perfect hits before I started on them. Even when I would ask how come there is inside hind leg hair or green mucus or white belly hair or the list goes on at the scene of the hit. I'd get the same bs. After the first few I started making the client dispatch those animals. They either quit or learned to become much more proficient shots. In either case we as a hunter community are better for it. I'm all for expanding the hunting and shooting community and the creed is helping that alot. As a part of the grey brigade it is on us and those like us to inform the new shooters to the facts beyond the hype. A creed has plenty of pizaz to kill anything within it's performance envelope. But that envelope should be understated not overstated. You have people claiming 1200ft#s for elk Make it 1500Ft# and that puts most good bullets well within their respective envelope of performance with proper placement.
The other side of coin being the haters I'll say this. A mind is like a parachute if you don't open it bad things are going to happen
The fact that 4 guys or now 3 guys according to the op lost elk due to using the creed with no other information is funny. I recovered about 200 "lost deer" with my plott hound Jake. Of those 200ish deer about 98% were perfect hits before I started on them. Even when I would ask how come there is inside hind leg hair or green mucus or white belly hair or the list goes on at the scene of the hit. I'd get the same bs. After the first few I started making the client dispatch those animals. They either quit or learned to become much more proficient shots. In either case we as a hunter community are better for it. I'm all for expanding the hunting and shooting community and the creed is helping that alot. As a part of the grey brigade it is on us and those like us to inform the new shooters to the facts beyond the hype. A creed has plenty of pizaz to kill anything within it's performance envelope. But that envelope should be understated not overstated. You have people claiming 1200ft#s for elk Make it 1500Ft# and that puts most good bullets well within their respective envelope of performance with proper placement.
The other side of coin being the haters I'll say this. A mind is like a parachute if you don't open it bad things are going to happen
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
Eye roll. The only thing I attacked about your company was the weak ballistic Coefficients - that is a fact. Also a fact is that they are worse than you publish - you should google that sometime and read reviews.
Anybody who goes back and reads your posts on these different threads will see you are all over the place, inconsistent with your views, and lacking credibility. I love how you skew your table with low velocity in the creed while being pretty generous with your own handloads. there was an earlier post with handloaders getting over 3000 fps with RL26. Run the table with that velocity and then check your numbers.
Here is the link to the thread:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/reloader-26-in-6-5-creedmoor.191114/page-18
Ballistic Coefficients are over rated, there is no replacement for displacement, but an 88gr 6mm bullet is adequate for elk (as long as its one of our hammer bullets). Keep posting and sharing those view points - you look like you know what you are talking about.
Give some examples of your claims.
Yes. I was generalizing the area. Probability right about the gut shot on the first one. I'm guessing the bull was quartered slightly and shooting past the shoulder and hitting him the hip, hindquarter area. Also glad the guy kept throwing lead at him.
motrapper
Well-Known Member
Yes that was some poor shot placements till the final one.
I would not have posted such a FUBAR
I would not have posted such a FUBAR
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
Golly Gosh.... From what I've read there have been more Moose killed in the US with a 30-30 than any other cartridge. So does that prove that it's an adequate cartridge for moose? Not at all. It was what hunters had and therefore what they used and that was most likely when most moose were shot at halitosis range in thick cover.
This goes hand and hand with the argument that just because Europeans have been shooting moose with a 6.5 for umpteen years that it's a good elk cartridge.
Another reason that poor killing power bullets and cartridges have survived so many years without being outed as inadequate is that hunters "ethics" have only surfaced as worth consideration to most hunters in the last few decades and previous to that it was considered perfectly acceptable to go around wounding game until one lucky shot or shots finally anchored one long enough for Bubba to get his teeth into it. LOL
There are always arguments to bolster up any viewpoint regardless of how nonsensical that viewpoint is. If you don't believe that tune into CNN sometime for an hour or two and if you don't end up wanting to smash your tv then you are either brain dead or you like nonsensical entertainment.
The same arguments have prevailed in ballistics ever since Al Gore "invented the internet" and I suspect they'll continue ad nauseam. Every man or woman has to make up their own mind as to what "adequate" is for them and the game they hunt but I will offer one piece of advice I've heard and believe in and have found to be patently true. "Use enough gun."
I will staunchly defend ANY American's right to hunt if they're legally able to possess a firearm but I hope they at least try to use an adequate cartridge, wait for a good shot, and practice enough to be a fairly good shot in field conditions.
This goes hand and hand with the argument that just because Europeans have been shooting moose with a 6.5 for umpteen years that it's a good elk cartridge.
Another reason that poor killing power bullets and cartridges have survived so many years without being outed as inadequate is that hunters "ethics" have only surfaced as worth consideration to most hunters in the last few decades and previous to that it was considered perfectly acceptable to go around wounding game until one lucky shot or shots finally anchored one long enough for Bubba to get his teeth into it. LOL
There are always arguments to bolster up any viewpoint regardless of how nonsensical that viewpoint is. If you don't believe that tune into CNN sometime for an hour or two and if you don't end up wanting to smash your tv then you are either brain dead or you like nonsensical entertainment.
The same arguments have prevailed in ballistics ever since Al Gore "invented the internet" and I suspect they'll continue ad nauseam. Every man or woman has to make up their own mind as to what "adequate" is for them and the game they hunt but I will offer one piece of advice I've heard and believe in and have found to be patently true. "Use enough gun."
I will staunchly defend ANY American's right to hunt if they're legally able to possess a firearm but I hope they at least try to use an adequate cartridge, wait for a good shot, and practice enough to be a fairly good shot in field conditions.
Beaver10
Well-Known Member
Likely not the rifles fault...Probably a real poor decision in trying to stretch out their barrel further than they should have. Hitting steel at yardage's doesn't automatically guarantee a "bang flop" at same distance. Unless your ripping apart a heart, breaking a back, or Tbone'n the head or high neck, a lunger or gut shot will usually find you tracking...Eyes and nose down looking for blood and mumbling, I know I hit it...Beaver10
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
On another note... Sometime spend a day hanging out at a check station and see the game that is actually brought out of the area and see the butcher jobs that many hunters bring in with Swiss cheese flanks.
The sad truth is that the average hunter is a poor shot, almost never practices, has poor equipment, doesn't know how to use it and frankly doesn't really care. If you're at a fairly busy check station for a large area with a lot of game and hunters you'll be astounded at the "one shot one kill" hunters that in reality are "spray and pray" hunters.
We, here on LR Hunting, for the most part, are not a representative cross section of typical hunters and I suspect that, other than the keyboard warriors, are a cut above the average hunters and most of us are striving to become accomplished hunters often at ranges most hunters only dream about.
I'll close this message with a word of wisdom from a local hunter from my area that one day was sporting a small buck in the back of is pickup with a somewhat respectable rack and he was very proud of it and pointed out that it only had one bullet hole in it. He said it was a 300 yard shot and the only firearm that was in evidence was a very nice lever action rifle chambered with the mighty 30-30 cartridge with open sights and it had a pretty long barrel for a lever action.
I said "wow... that's great... How much above the buck did you have to aim to hit him at that range. He said "what do you mean? That long barrel makes it so I can hold dead on out to 500 yards before the bullet stops dropping." I suspect that his 300 yards was more like something between 40 and 80 yards but then nobody will ever know for sure will they?
Pay attention.... Words of wisdom guys (and gals)... Now you've learned where CNN gets their talking heads... The piney woods of north Florida... LOL
The sad truth is that the average hunter is a poor shot, almost never practices, has poor equipment, doesn't know how to use it and frankly doesn't really care. If you're at a fairly busy check station for a large area with a lot of game and hunters you'll be astounded at the "one shot one kill" hunters that in reality are "spray and pray" hunters.
We, here on LR Hunting, for the most part, are not a representative cross section of typical hunters and I suspect that, other than the keyboard warriors, are a cut above the average hunters and most of us are striving to become accomplished hunters often at ranges most hunters only dream about.
I'll close this message with a word of wisdom from a local hunter from my area that one day was sporting a small buck in the back of is pickup with a somewhat respectable rack and he was very proud of it and pointed out that it only had one bullet hole in it. He said it was a 300 yard shot and the only firearm that was in evidence was a very nice lever action rifle chambered with the mighty 30-30 cartridge with open sights and it had a pretty long barrel for a lever action.
I said "wow... that's great... How much above the buck did you have to aim to hit him at that range. He said "what do you mean? That long barrel makes it so I can hold dead on out to 500 yards before the bullet stops dropping." I suspect that his 300 yards was more like something between 40 and 80 yards but then nobody will ever know for sure will they?
Pay attention.... Words of wisdom guys (and gals)... Now you've learned where CNN gets their talking heads... The piney woods of north Florida... LOL
Roughwater
Well-Known Member
If a picture speakes a thousand words then LOL on that last pic.
The 6.5 reminds me of the 308 Winchester. Very efficient, moderate recoil, very accurate in the right gun with the right shooter. Unlike older similar rounds is often paired with a rifle with a fast twist enabling it to handle longer higher BC bullets. It's not especially powerfull but being paired with a fast twist rifle increases it's bullet selection. No one will ever accuse me of being a genious, not sure if I can even spell the word correctly. But I feel a more powerful caliber is a better choice for Elk hunting. That said, I believe if you do choose a 6.5 then for heavy game like Elk, bullet selection is paramont. I'm not going deep into that subject as it would probably stir up even more contraversey.
With more bullet calibers coming out in heavier higher BC versions I hope more gun makers will come out with more rifle models in faster twist versions. Browning has done so to some extent with some of their x-bolt rifles. I always thought a 270 caliber rifle with a fast twist with it's high SD and with a high BC bullet would make a great hunting caliber even greater.
The 6.5 reminds me of the 308 Winchester. Very efficient, moderate recoil, very accurate in the right gun with the right shooter. Unlike older similar rounds is often paired with a rifle with a fast twist enabling it to handle longer higher BC bullets. It's not especially powerfull but being paired with a fast twist rifle increases it's bullet selection. No one will ever accuse me of being a genious, not sure if I can even spell the word correctly. But I feel a more powerful caliber is a better choice for Elk hunting. That said, I believe if you do choose a 6.5 then for heavy game like Elk, bullet selection is paramont. I'm not going deep into that subject as it would probably stir up even more contraversey.
With more bullet calibers coming out in heavier higher BC versions I hope more gun makers will come out with more rifle models in faster twist versions. Browning has done so to some extent with some of their x-bolt rifles. I always thought a 270 caliber rifle with a fast twist with it's high SD and with a high BC bullet would make a great hunting caliber even greater.
the hunter
Well-Known Member
I've tried to tell them, just because Native Americans used pointed sticks for 1,000 years on moose, elk, and bear dose not mean you'or best chance for elk is a pointed stick.Golly Gosh.... From what I've read there have been more Moose killed in the US with a 30-30 than any other cartridge. So does that prove that it's an adequate cartridge for moose? Not at all. It was what hunters had and therefore what they used and that was most likely when most moose were shot at halitosis range in thick cover.
This goes hand and hand with the argument that just because Europeans have been shooting moose with a 6.5 for umpteen years that it's a good elk cartridge.
Another reason that poor killing power bullets and cartridges have survived so many years without being outed as inadequate is that hunters "ethics" have only surfaced as worth consideration to most hunters in the last few decades and previous to that it was considered perfectly acceptable to go around wounding game until one lucky shot or shots finally anchored one long enough for Bubba to get his teeth into it. LOL
There are always arguments to bolster up any viewpoint regardless of how nonsensical that viewpoint is. If you don't believe that tune into CNN sometime for an hour or two and if you don't end up wanting to smash your tv then you are either brain dead or you like nonsensical entertainment.
The same arguments have prevailed in ballistics ever since Al Gore "invented the internet" and I suspect they'll continue ad nauseam. Every man or woman has to make up their own mind as to what "adequate" is for them and the game they hunt but I will offer one piece of advice I've heard and believe in and have found to be patently true. "Use enough gun."
I will staunchly defend ANY American's right to hunt if they're legally able to possess a firearm but I hope they at least try to use an adequate cartridge, wait for a good shot, and practice enough to be a fairly good shot in field conditions.
Most often than not people criticize because they can do so. On some instances, the negatives (defects) is what is measured because it is easier and the occurrence is lesser - measuring the good vs. the bad. I have a different take on the muley freak video. We already know the sites policy/rule on ethics. Their hunt is not ideal but they took the opportunity it was presented to them. BTW, this is a hunt and opportunity of a lifetime. What one does with the opportunity is entirely up to an individual. I like to think that they have all the best intentions, it just did not panned out as they would have want it to be. Let's be honest, have you ever been in that situation, heck I know some here commenting have not even been to elk country. I am no expert by any means or claim to be but I appreciate their efforts. Sometimes it is not how you started but it's how you finished. Criticize all you want but how many here can claim they have a nice 7x7 bull elk (private or public guided or not). I am not a trophy hunter but all my hunts are. As in the famous saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
What is the ideal cartridge for the elk? Might not be acceptable to most but its what you have at the time of the opportunity. Knowing your and set-up limitations is another story. In 2013, I shot my Montana bull elk at 931 yards with front chest area (vitals were souped up) Berger 190 VLD handload off my .300 WM and it managed to ran a few hundred yards with the herd before he dropped (the blood trail was amazing). My other hunting buddy shot another bull from the same herd using HSM 180 VLD off his 7MM RM at under 300 yards and the bull was DRT (double lung). Two weeks earlier another hunting buddy harvested a bull and it took him 3 shots (2 pass through in the lung area and the last was front shoulder area) using factory 180 TTSX off his .300 WM at ~100 yards. He's a young hunter from Georgia and first time elk hunter. His instruction from us before we went to our spots was to keep shooting until the elks drops, and he did exactly that. In short, all shot placements were good, bullets did their jobs, but all 3 elk expired differently.
Cheers!
What is the ideal cartridge for the elk? Might not be acceptable to most but its what you have at the time of the opportunity. Knowing your and set-up limitations is another story. In 2013, I shot my Montana bull elk at 931 yards with front chest area (vitals were souped up) Berger 190 VLD handload off my .300 WM and it managed to ran a few hundred yards with the herd before he dropped (the blood trail was amazing). My other hunting buddy shot another bull from the same herd using HSM 180 VLD off his 7MM RM at under 300 yards and the bull was DRT (double lung). Two weeks earlier another hunting buddy harvested a bull and it took him 3 shots (2 pass through in the lung area and the last was front shoulder area) using factory 180 TTSX off his .300 WM at ~100 yards. He's a young hunter from Georgia and first time elk hunter. His instruction from us before we went to our spots was to keep shooting until the elks drops, and he did exactly that. In short, all shot placements were good, bullets did their jobs, but all 3 elk expired differently.
Cheers!
