45-70 Load Suggestions

[memtb]

My 430's from my GG @ just shy of 1800 mv isn't at all bad for recoil! But, I have a good recoil pad….which helps tremendously! Mathematically, recoil is a twin for my wife's hunting rifle…..but, she doesn't shoot much from the bench! memtb

 

[Dean2]

Keith, what you say is true for shooting longer distances. If you run a 350 grain bullet through a ballistic calculator at 1400 FPS, then again at 1800 FPS, what you find it makes a difference but from 200 yards out, with a 150 yard zero, you need to figure out your dial up or holdover anyhow. For the very few times I shoot anything over 200 yards with the 45-70, the drop card on the stock works fine.

Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer:	Hornady	Description:	Round Nose
Caliber:	0.458 in	Weight:	350.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient:	0.189 G1 (ASM)
Muzzle Velocity:	1800.0 ft/s	Distance to Chronograph:	10.0 ft
Sight Height:	1.50 in	Sight Offset:	0.00 in
Zero Height:	0.00 in	Zero Offset:	0.00 in
Windage:	0.000 MOA	Elevation:	0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle:	0.0 deg	Cant Angle:	0.0 deg
Wind Speed:	10.0 mph	Wind Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Speed:	10.0 mph	Target Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Height:	12.0 in
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0 %	Altitude:	0.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius:	5.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range:	No	Target Relative Drops:	Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing:	No	Include Extra Rows:	No
Column 1 Units:	1.00 in	Column 2 Units:	1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers:	No
Output Data
Elevation:	10.514 MOA	Windage:	0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density:	0.07647 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR:	198 yd	Maximum PBR Zero:	170 yd
Range of Maximum Height:	96 yd	Energy at Maximum PBR:	1088.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density:	0.238 lb/in²

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Calculated Table
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1813.1	1.624	2554.3	0.000	0.0	***
25	0.9	3.5	0.2	0.8	1716.6	1.538	2289.6	0.043	7.5	28.6
50	2.6	4.9	0.8	1.6	1624.1	1.455	2049.5	0.087	15.4	29.4
75	3.4	4.4	1.9	2.4	1536.0	1.376	1833.3	0.135	23.7	30.2
100	3.4	3.2	3.5	3.3	1452.8	1.301	1640.0	0.185	32.6	31.1
125	2.3	1.7	5.5	4.2	1375.0	1.232	1469.0	0.238	41.9	32.0
150	-0.0	-0.0	8.1	5.2	1303.0	1.167	1319.3	0.294	51.8	33.0
175	-3.5	-1.9	11.2	6.1	1237.6	1.109	1190.2	0.353	62.2	33.9
200	-8.5	-4.1	14.9	7.1	1179.4	1.056	1080.7	0.415	73.1	34.9
225	-15.0	-6.4	19.0	8.1	1128.6	1.011	989.7	0.480	84.6	35.9
250	-23.2	-8.9	23.7	9.1	1085.0	0.972	914.8	0.548	96.5	36.9
275	-33.3	-11.6	28.8	10.0	1047.7	0.938	853.0	0.619	108.9	37.8
300	-45.3	-14.4	34.3	10.9	1015.4	0.910	801.2	0.691	121.7	38.7
325	-59.5	-17.5	40.2	11.8	987.0	0.884	756.9	0.766	134.9	39.6
350	-75.8	-20.7	46.5	12.7	961.5	0.861	718.3	0.843	148.4	40.5
375	-94.6	-24.1	53.1	13.5	938.2	0.840	684.0	0.922	162.3	41.3
400	-115.8	-27.6	60.1	14.3	916.8	0.821	653.1	1.003	176.6	42.2
425	-139.5	-31.4	67.4	15.1	896.8	0.803	624.9	1.086	191.1	42.9
450	-166.0	-35.2	75.0	15.9	878.1	0.786	599.1	1.171	206.0	43.7

1400 FPS rest same

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Calculated Table
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1410.3	1.263	1545.5	0.000	0.0	***
25	2.3	8.6	0.3	1.0	1335.5	1.196	1386.0	0.055	9.6	36.7
50	4.8	9.2	1.1	2.0	1267.0	1.135	1247.4	0.112	19.8	37.8
75	6.0	7.6	2.4	3.0	1205.4	1.080	1129.0	0.173	30.5	38.8
100	5.7	5.4	4.2	4.0	1151.1	1.031	1029.6	0.237	41.7	39.8
125	3.7	2.8	6.6	5.0	1104.3	0.989	947.5	0.303	53.4	40.8
150	-0.0	-0.0	9.4	6.0	1064.2	0.953	880.1	0.373	65.6	41.7
175	-5.6	-3.1	12.7	6.9	1029.8	0.922	824.0	0.444	78.2	42.7
200	-13.3	-6.4	16.3	7.8	999.7	0.895	776.5	0.518	91.2	43.5
225	-23.2	-9.8	20.3	8.6	972.9	0.871	735.4	0.594	104.6	44.4
250	-35.4	-13.5	24.7	9.4	948.6	0.850	699.3	0.672	118.3	45.2
275	-49.9	-17.3	29.4	10.2	926.4	0.830	666.9	0.752	132.4	46.0
300	-67.0	-21.3	34.5	11.0	905.8	0.811	637.5	0.834	146.8	46.7
325	-86.8	-25.5	39.9	11.7	886.5	0.794	610.6	0.918	161.6	47.5
350	-109.3	-29.8	45.6	12.4	868.3	0.778	585.8	1.003	176.6	48.2
375	-134.7	-34.3	51.6	13.1	851.0	0.762	562.7	1.091	192.0	48.9
400	-163.1	-38.9	57.9	13.8	834.5	0.747	541.1	1.180	207.6	49.6
425	-194.6	-43.7	64.5	14.5	818.7	0.733	520.9	1.271	223.6	50.2
450	-229.4	-48.7	71.4	15.2	803.6	0.720	501.7	1.363	239.9	50.9

 

[geocodyrgia]

I use 50gr of 3031 in my H&R single shot with Hornady 325 FTX

 

[Marksman LLC]

Imr 3031 has been really good in my 1895g 45-70
With the 380 gr lehigh defense or the 400 gr Speers

 

[Keith M Sheehan]

Keith, what you say is true for shooting longer distances. If you run a 350 grain bullet through a ballistic calculator at 1400 FPS, then again at 1800 FPS, what you find it makes a difference but from 200 yards out, with a 150 yard zero, you need to figure out your dial up or holdover anyhow. For the very few times I should anything over 200 yards with the 45-70, the drop card on the stock works fine.

Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer:	Hornady	Description:	Round Nose
Caliber:	0.458 in	Weight:	350.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient:	0.189 G1 (ASM)
Muzzle Velocity:	1800.0 ft/s	Distance to Chronograph:	10.0 ft
Sight Height:	1.50 in	Sight Offset:	0.00 in
Zero Height:	0.00 in	Zero Offset:	0.00 in
Windage:	0.000 MOA	Elevation:	0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle:	0.0 deg	Cant Angle:	0.0 deg
Wind Speed:	10.0 mph	Wind Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Speed:	10.0 mph	Target Angle:	90.0 deg
Target Height:	12.0 in
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0 %	Altitude:	0.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius:	5.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range:	No	Target Relative Drops:	Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing:	No	Include Extra Rows:	No
Column 1 Units:	1.00 in	Column 2 Units:	1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers:	No
Output Data
Elevation:	10.514 MOA	Windage:	0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density:	0.07647 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.4 ft/s
Maximum PBR:	198 yd	Maximum PBR Zero:	170 yd
Range of Maximum Height:	96 yd	Energy at Maximum PBR:	1088.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density:	0.238 lb/in²

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Calculated Table
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1813.1	1.624	2554.3	0.000	0.0	***
25	0.9	3.5	0.2	0.8	1716.6	1.538	2289.6	0.043	7.5	28.6
50	2.6	4.9	0.8	1.6	1624.1	1.455	2049.5	0.087	15.4	29.4
75	3.4	4.4	1.9	2.4	1536.0	1.376	1833.3	0.135	23.7	30.2
100	3.4	3.2	3.5	3.3	1452.8	1.301	1640.0	0.185	32.6	31.1
125	2.3	1.7	5.5	4.2	1375.0	1.232	1469.0	0.238	41.9	32.0
150	-0.0	-0.0	8.1	5.2	1303.0	1.167	1319.3	0.294	51.8	33.0
175	-3.5	-1.9	11.2	6.1	1237.6	1.109	1190.2	0.353	62.2	33.9
200	-8.5	-4.1	14.9	7.1	1179.4	1.056	1080.7	0.415	73.1	34.9
225	-15.0	-6.4	19.0	8.1	1128.6	1.011	989.7	0.480	84.6	35.9
250	-23.2	-8.9	23.7	9.1	1085.0	0.972	914.8	0.548	96.5	36.9
275	-33.3	-11.6	28.8	10.0	1047.7	0.938	853.0	0.619	108.9	37.8
300	-45.3	-14.4	34.3	10.9	1015.4	0.910	801.2	0.691	121.7	38.7
325	-59.5	-17.5	40.2	11.8	987.0	0.884	756.9	0.766	134.9	39.6
350	-75.8	-20.7	46.5	12.7	961.5	0.861	718.3	0.843	148.4	40.5
375	-94.6	-24.1	53.1	13.5	938.2	0.840	684.0	0.922	162.3	41.3
400	-115.8	-27.6	60.1	14.3	916.8	0.821	653.1	1.003	176.6	42.2
425	-139.5	-31.4	67.4	15.1	896.8	0.803	624.9	1.086	191.1	42.9
450	-166.0	-35.2	75.0	15.9	878.1	0.786	599.1	1.171	206.0	43.7

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Calculated Table
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1410.3	1.263	1545.5	0.000	0.0	***
25	2.3	8.6	0.3	1.0	1335.5	1.196	1386.0	0.055	9.6	36.7
50	4.8	9.2	1.1	2.0	1267.0	1.135	1247.4	0.112	19.8	37.8
75	6.0	7.6	2.4	3.0	1205.4	1.080	1129.0	0.173	30.5	38.8
100	5.7	5.4	4.2	4.0	1151.1	1.031	1029.6	0.237	41.7	39.8
125	3.7	2.8	6.6	5.0	1104.3	0.989	947.5	0.303	53.4	40.8
150	-0.0	-0.0	9.4	6.0	1064.2	0.953	880.1	0.373	65.6	41.7
175	-5.6	-3.1	12.7	6.9	1029.8	0.922	824.0	0.444	78.2	42.7
200	-13.3	-6.4	16.3	7.8	999.7	0.895	776.5	0.518	91.2	43.5
225	-23.2	-9.8	20.3	8.6	972.9	0.871	735.4	0.594	104.6	44.4
250	-35.4	-13.5	24.7	9.4	948.6	0.850	699.3	0.672	118.3	45.2
275	-49.9	-17.3	29.4	10.2	926.4	0.830	666.9	0.752	132.4	46.0
300	-67.0	-21.3	34.5	11.0	905.8	0.811	637.5	0.834	146.8	46.7
325	-86.8	-25.5	39.9	11.7	886.5	0.794	610.6	0.918	161.6	47.5
350	-109.3	-29.8	45.6	12.4	868.3	0.778	585.8	1.003	176.6	48.2
375	-134.7	-34.3	51.6	13.1	851.0	0.762	562.7	1.091	192.0	48.9
400	-163.1	-38.9	57.9	13.8	834.5	0.747	541.1	1.180	207.6	49.6
425	-194.6	-43.7	64.5	14.5	818.7	0.733	520.9	1.271	223.6	50.2
450	-229.4	-48.7	71.4	15.2	803.6	0.720	501.7	1.363	239.9	50.9

, Dean, Thanks so very much for all the information.

Wow. Thanks so much, Dean, for your extensive response. I appreciate any and all additional information about .45-70's. Just a quick story for you: I went to the Hauck Ranch (where "Dances with wolves" was filmed to cull a Buffalo. I asked for, and got, the oldest one they had. He was a cantankerous fellow who had a bad habit of attacking the feed trucks that dropped off hay bales during the winter. For the occasion I chose to use my Lyman/Ruger "Centennial" .45-70, and since I knew that the action would safely digest 55,000 psi, I loaded it up with 56 grs. of AA2015 behind a 400 gr. Swift HP partition bullet. That bullet zipped through my chronograph at 2,182 fps out of that 28" bbl. The bullet struck slightly left of between his eyes as he faced me at 108 yds. It broke two vertebrae in his neck, went through his boiler room, destroying every organ the old boy had, exited and re-entered his flank and lodged half way through his off-side hip. Total travel: 7' 3", as measured by the skinners. The recovered bullet had perfectly mushroomed to .68" and weighed 360 hrs. The bull died about 5 times before he hit the ground. I do love the terminal effects of a .45-70.

 

[Calvin45]

I wonder what RL11 will be like? No, it's not a joke as it's supposed to be coming out.

I have to admit I wish they'd quit making new products and actually keep the excellent ones they've already invented IN STOCK!!!!!

 

[Dean2]

I have to admit I wish they'd quit making new products and actually keep the excellent ones they've already invented IN STOCK!!!!!

I don't use Reloader Powders for exactly that reason. Hodgdon and IMR are consistently and widely available so I stick to that. RL performs great but it just isn't worth the effort to find it.

 

[Old Rooster]

I still have 1 bottle half full of Re7 and another unopened bottle.
50 grs of Re7 pushing a Hornady 300 gr HP bullet has killed some of the biggest hogs I have ever seen with one shot!Also a couple of black bears,one 15-20 feet from me and the other was at about 50 feet.All one shot kills.
Like Dean2 I love the 350 gr Hornady but not able to find any at the time.The 300 did so well I quit looking for the 350 gr bullets.
Edit to add:IMR3031 is still a great performer as others have noted.

 

[MagnumManiac]

That's even harder to find than H4198

Terribly sorry, I don't know what's available there…or care.
Am I supposed to only suggest powders that are pertinent to what's available?…

 

[CMP70306]

Terribly sorry, I don't know what's available there…or care.
Am I supposed to only suggest powders that are pertinent to what's available?…

No need for the attitude, I was joking as the post above you mentioned that H4198 was difficult to find. I spent several years trying to get my hands on H4895 for my 45-70 before giving up and moving to other powders. I believe it popped up maybe once in the last three years.

I shot 43gr behind a 405gr coated lead bullet for use in a local Buffalo rifle match and with what was left of the pound I had remaining I was able to just make the minimum round count for the last match I shot.

 

[ARlife4me]

No need for the attitude, I was joking as the post above you mentioned that H4198 was difficult to find. I spent several years trying to get my hands on H4895 for my 45-70 before giving up and moving to other powders. I believe it popped up maybe once in the last three years.

I shot 43gr behind a 405gr coated lead bullet for use in a local Buffalo rifle match and with what was left of the pound I had remaining I was able to just make the minimum round count for the last match I shot.

Ramshot wild boar seems like it might work for 300gr and up?

 

[Buffalobwana]

No word on suppressed loads? Anyone have any thoughts on the 410 gr Hornady subsonic on bears or other game? Any other loads since the new Marlins readily accept a suppressor

The Hornadys in my Henry mod X are pretty dang accurate. 14 gr Unique is the trick in my gun. I have heard as low as 11 gr works, but that only gave me 800 fps.

You might try Shooters World Buffalo Rifle if Unique is hard to find. I emailed the manufacturer and they said they didn't have sub data but feel free to go lower than published on this powder as it isn't sensitive to case volume.

 

[coloradocelt]

Look at the Paul A. Matthews book, "Forty Years with the .45-70" . It and his many other books are a wealth of information.
Being a life long 45-70 shooter, i use H4198 with 350grain A-Frames, 3031 with any weight and 2400 is awesome for black powder level 405 grain. Except for the A-Frame load, faster is not better!

 

[memtb]

Another powder that works great, but is also nearly "unobtainium" is RL 7. That's what I use to push my home cast 430's to very near 1800 mv with good accuracy!

Though, I have experience with any jacketed bullets! memtb

I have lots of IMR 4198…..acquired years ago for cast bullet loads in numerous bottleneck cases. That and about 1000 pounds of wheel weights are on standby for after the "ship hits the sand"! memtb

I just discovered that I was only off a 1000 pounds or so with my wheel weight supply! I originally posted 100 pounds…..that's not even a couple years worth if things go really bad!

The original post has since been changed to better reflect reality! memtb