45-70 annealing?

[Alibiiv]

I just picked a couple of Marlin 45-70s, a Guide Gun JM and an older 1895JM (1975), and have been playing with some loads for the rifles. I have read different opinions on the need for annealing straight walled cases. I'd appreciate other's opinions/thoughts on annealing straight walled 45-70 brass?

I would also like to included that I have annealed 20 cases of Hornady brass and have noticed that I am having trouble setting the crimp on those cases. I am using a set of Hornady Match dies and a Barnes Triple-Shock (TSX) 300 grain Flat Point Hollow Point bullet; and, there/s a really good cannular groove in that bullet. This is the reason for this thread, not sure if the annealing has caused my problem, or if it's the nut behind the seating die having difficulty finding that "sweet spot" on the die?

 

[Wingnut00]

Following!

 

[Methow Packer]

I

I just picked a couple of Marlin 45-70s, a Guide Gun JM and an older 1895JM (1975), and have been playing with some loads for the rifles. I have read different opinions on the need for annealing straight walled cases. I'd appreciate other's opinions/thoughts on annealing straight walled 45-70 brass?

I would also like to included that I have annealed 20 cases of Hornady brass and have noticed that I am having trouble setting the crimp on those cases. I am using a set of Hornady Match dies and a Barnes Triple-Shock (TSX) 300 grain Flat Point Hollow Point bullet; and, there/s a really good cannular groove in that bullet. This is the reason for this thread, not sure if the annealing has caused my problem, or if it's the nut behind the seating die having difficulty finding that "sweet spot" on the die?

It's real important on strait wall cases to have each case the same trimmed length to achieve accurate crimping in the crimp groove. More important than annealing.

 

[DocDoc]

Over anneal and the brass can get too soft to hold well.

 

[Alibiiv]

Over anneal and the brass can get too soft to hold well.

Thank you for the reply on annealing. I am doing 5 seconds at 520C which is what the manufacturer recommends for annealing. I've been using that formula for the bottleneck cases and have not had any trouble with the brass.

 

[Thescandinavian]

I have bolt rifle so I never crimped my cases and not seat my bullets for the grove, but rather think about case capacity and bullet jump.
I actually never thought about annealing so I'm interested to know this.

 

[Alibiiv]

I

It's real important on strait wall cases to have each case the same trimmed length to achieve accurate crimping in the crimp groove. More important than annealing.

Thank you for the reply, yes I actually did that. If I remember correctly they were like .010 shorter than SAAMI; 2.095. Usually do not have any trouble with the crimp, I am not sure if it's the brass or the die itself? Usually I use RCBS dies, have never used Hornady dies before. I wrinkled a few cases trying to get it set-up. At a $1.00+ each for bullets, I try not to do that as I find it expensive for me.

Just want to say thank you for all of the replies, guys on the forum are great!!​

 

[Alibiiv]

I have bolt rifle so I never crimped my cases and not seat my bullets for the grove, but rather think about case capacity and bullet jump.
I actually never thought about annealing so I'm interested to know this.

Outside of the 30-30 I never crimp my bottleneck cases either; but, I know there's different schools of thought on that process. But...with the tubular magazine on the Marlin 45-70 and the considerable recoil that goes along with that recoil I do crimp because (1) I do not want the bullets to seat deeper into the case, or (2) do not want the bullet to back out due to recoil.

 

[J E Custom]

The straight sided cases don't need annealing in my opinion even though I am a big fan of annealing on brass cases.

Straight sided cases don't get the work that bottle necked do and like mentioned, keeping them trimmed especially if you are crimping is more important.

Watch for over sizing. (You will be able to see the bullet seating depth because of the bulge in the case after loading. If this occurs, I recommend getting different dies) Over sizing will reduce case life.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Thescandinavian]

Watch for over sizing. (You will be able to see the bullet seating depth because of the bulge in the case after loading. If this occurs, I recommend getting different dies) Over sizing will reduce case life.

J E CUSTOM

I feel I get few reloads on my brass and guessed it was because of overworking the brass. I have this bulge, but I thought it was normal for straight wall cases.
It's not much straight wall cases here so there is not a great deal of knowledge other than what is in the average reloading manual.
I use the RCBS dies. Any other options?
Can I get good enough sizing by not turn the die that deep into the press? I would assume the brass just ahead of the belt sooner or later would start to stick in the chamber making it harder to close the bolt or extract the case.
Not really any idea of what I'm talking about here.

 

[Alibiiv]

I feel I get few reloads on my brass and guessed it was because of overworking the brass. I have this bulge, but I thought it was normal for straight wall cases.
It's not much straight wall cases here so there is not a great deal of knowledge other than what is in the average reloading manual.
I use the RCBS dies. Any other options?
Can I get good enough sizing by not turn the die that deep into the press? I would assume the brass just ahead of the belt sooner or later would start to stick in the chamber making it harder to close the bolt or extract the case.
Not really any idea of what I'm talking about here.

"I would assume the brass just ahead of the belt" Are you reloading the 450 Marlin,
there's no belt on the 45-70.

 

[Thescandinavian]

"I would assume the brass just ahead of the belt" Are you reloading the 450 Marlin,
there's no belt on the 45-70.

The 450 Marlin, 458 wm and 458 lott are the only straight wall cases that are not wildcats that I can come up with that has a belt, but I'm sure there is more.
But yes you are correct.

 

[Alibiiv]

The 450 Marlin, 458 wm and 458 lott are the only straight wall cases that are not wildcats that I can come up with that has a belt, but I'm sure there is more.
But yes you are correct.

e

The 45-70 is about all the recoil I want to take. The Guide Gun has a built in compensator, but it does nothing for recoil! I put a 1 inch KickEez pad that takes some of the bite out of it. I like the Guide Gun for bear hunting in a ground blind, short and very handy.

 

[J E Custom]

I feel I get few reloads on my brass and guessed it was because of overworking the brass. I have this bulge, but I thought it was normal for straight wall cases.
It's not much straight wall cases here so there is not a great deal of knowledge other than what is in the average reloading manual.
I use the RCBS dies. Any other options?
Can I get good enough sizing by not turn the die that deep into the press? I would assume the brass just ahead of the belt sooner or later would start to stick in the chamber making it harder to close the bolt or extract the case.
Not really any idea of what I'm talking about here.

The straight sided cases are no different than bottle neck cases when it comes to neck tension. If you measure/mic. a sized case and a loaded one the difference should not be more than .004 thousandths. If you crimp, it can be less than that.

Some dies over size unless you set them shallow, so backing off the die until it will chamber may save you from having to buy a new set. Some dies like the new dimension dies from Hornady are designed to size from a small base (More than full length) to full length, to minimum needed, to neck size only.

On belted cases you can size enough to fit the chamber and still use the belt (Belted cases are way under size in front of the belt to aid in loading in a less than pristine
chamber) the belt was designed for use in dangerous game rifles to maintain head space even with the case body much smaller. Case life was not a concern, Safety was.

J E CUSTOM