ronstone09
Well-Known Member
56mm gathers more light and is good early & late in the day if youre hunting
44mm vs 56mm objective, need advice
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katakenm
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I agree bad example. Looking through all glass that the OP can will be best for him. And Brad.... the Recon G2 is not an IOR scope. It is confused with them being the parent company but they are Val's venture in his own name. Thanks.
The Badger
Well-Known Member
I have one 56mm version on a rifle I use when hunting farm fields in GA. 90% of the deer activity there is at distance in the last 10 minutes of light. Short carry, solid stands with a good rests (bags). Not really awkward in that application. It helps some for sure, but quality of glass is probably a much bigger factor. As others mentioned, a higher comb stock helps to get the proper cheek weld. For the rest of my hunting rifles, I prefer 50mm or less. Just depends on what type of hunting you do.
I often hear older shooters speak about increasing objective size to accommodate their aging eyes. In fact, the older we get, the smaller our (exit) pupil gets negating the benefit due to the large objective lens scopes exit pupil being greater then the aging eyes which won't let the additional light in anyway. Fast approaching 70, I have found greater benefit investing my money into higher quality scopes with smaller objectives, but better lenses and coatings that provide greater contrast, resolution, and reflective qualities.
jasonprox700
Well-Known Member
I actually have the VX5 HD 3-15x44. It's an amazing scope. I can honestly say that I can't possibly see any scenario where the 56 will gain you anything in a hunting situation. If you are hunting at midnight with no moon, then the 56 would be the better of the two.
The 44 is a lot handier in a hunting rifle. It isn't as bulky and gives you a better cheek weld.
The 44 is a lot handier in a hunting rifle. It isn't as bulky and gives you a better cheek weld.
jasonprox700
Well-Known Member
Amen! I've been trying to get this thru my dad's head (61, I'm 37). He's stuck with the bigger is better mentality when it comes to objectives and the actual light your pupil can allow in. Glass quality trumps objective size.
Since comparing higher quality glass to cheaper, and in all different objective sizes and light over the years, my scopes have gotten smaller for my hunting rigs. 44's are the norm with an occasional 50, but that's it. I've thought about running a 56 with zoom on the lower end for night time coyote and fox hunting, but that's about the only time I'd use it, and it'd most likely sit on an AR because it wouldn't effect cheek weld.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
This is my understanding:
The column of light reaching your eye through a rifle scope is referred to as the exit pupil. An average person's eye can dilate to about 6mm and ,thus, does not benefit by a larger exit pupil than about 6mm. Younger eyes dilate slightly more and older eyes slightly less.
The exit pupil of a scope is calculated by dividing the objective diameter by the magnification.
ex: A 50mm objective scope that has a magnification of 8x would result in an exit pupil of 6.25mm, which is about the maximum usable amount of light your eye can benefit from.
The real benefit of a 56mm lens is that it would allow you to set the magnification to 9x and still have an exit pupil of 6.25mm. Not really much of a benefit IMO.
If you went with a standard 40mm objective you would get the same exit pupil and amount of usable light just by turning the magnification down to 6.5x
Using a 50mm objective on a scope set at 4x provides an exit pupil of 12.5mm, which is nearly useless because your eye can only dilate to aprox 6mm. The single benefit of such a large exit pupil (with low magnification) is that you can acquire your sight picture faster.
Lastly, lens quality and construction trumps all. A 56mm objective on a cheap scope will not provided nearly as good of an image as a high quality 40mm scope.
In a nut shell, the only real benefit of LARGE objective scopes is that you can use slightly higher magnification under low light conditions.
Just my 2 cents
The column of light reaching your eye through a rifle scope is referred to as the exit pupil. An average person's eye can dilate to about 6mm and ,thus, does not benefit by a larger exit pupil than about 6mm. Younger eyes dilate slightly more and older eyes slightly less.
The exit pupil of a scope is calculated by dividing the objective diameter by the magnification.
ex: A 50mm objective scope that has a magnification of 8x would result in an exit pupil of 6.25mm, which is about the maximum usable amount of light your eye can benefit from.
The real benefit of a 56mm lens is that it would allow you to set the magnification to 9x and still have an exit pupil of 6.25mm. Not really much of a benefit IMO.
If you went with a standard 40mm objective you would get the same exit pupil and amount of usable light just by turning the magnification down to 6.5x
Using a 50mm objective on a scope set at 4x provides an exit pupil of 12.5mm, which is nearly useless because your eye can only dilate to aprox 6mm. The single benefit of such a large exit pupil (with low magnification) is that you can acquire your sight picture faster.
Lastly, lens quality and construction trumps all. A 56mm objective on a cheap scope will not provided nearly as good of an image as a high quality 40mm scope.
In a nut shell, the only real benefit of LARGE objective scopes is that you can use slightly higher magnification under low light conditions.
Just my 2 cents
Sanford338
Well-Known Member
Have like 6 I believe of the VX-L series "half moon" love them.. on everything from my 300 Win Mag SAKO to my 30-378 Wby and Christensen Arms 338RUM Summit Ti... never a complaint
katakenm
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With a main tube of 34, 35, or even the 40mm tube like the Valdada Recon G2 that I recently purchased, looking through a larger tube is an amaxing increase in field of view. Going from a 34 to a 40 I thought wouldn't make a difference but it was huge. After pulling the trigger and upon recoil with a larger mean to but is also easier to stay on target and see bullet splash. I remember the days of the one inch tube Scopes and how your eye box was so small and any misalignment and you are out of your scope.
freddiej
Well-Known Member
okay, my 2 cents worth. I have 40MM, 50MM, and a 65MM objective scopes. I tested them out via a range I have full unfettered access to. I sat there at twilight and put my eye through each of the scopes. I found that the 40 was good, the 50 was well almost perfect, and the 65 was very impressive (nearly too much). 40MM objective was on a 1" scope tube. the other two were on 30MM scope tubes. the true secret of more light is bigger main tubes in conjunction with bigger objectives. the best twilight scope I have is a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 X 50MM with a 30MM tube. this scope sits atop of my 17 Rem for varmints. I have two more just like it without the VH reticle. they reside on my 270 Win and my 270 WSM.
jasonprox700
Well-Known Member
What brands and models were each of the scopes?
I too have scopes of different size objectives and totally agree with Freddiej as my go-to scope is on top of a 300 win mag and is also a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20 X 50 LR and it's all I need.I can't remember the eye distance but its well over 4 inches and I never get bit by the scope no matter the load but my Ziess Conquest 6-20 has bit me twice.
Also there exists a common problem called Ocular Disparity which means not every person's eye see's the same as another person's eye.
I have used another person's rifle(My Nikon scope broke on a fall while elk hunting) and I shot 1/2 to 3/4 inchs to the right at 100 yards while he shot it and hit center all day long.
So what works wonders for me may not work for the OP.Try different scopes and test in the back room of the store you have with low light and then in bright light.I believe there exist diminishing returns on objective size.I don't feel my 52 mm objective is any brighter than my 50 mm objective but that's with my older eyes.Younger eyes may see it differently.
Enjoy the chase to the best optic's you can afford as it will be with you for a long long time and so will bad purchase decisions.
Just my 2 cents
Old Rooster
Also there exists a common problem called Ocular Disparity which means not every person's eye see's the same as another person's eye.
I have used another person's rifle(My Nikon scope broke on a fall while elk hunting) and I shot 1/2 to 3/4 inchs to the right at 100 yards while he shot it and hit center all day long.
So what works wonders for me may not work for the OP.Try different scopes and test in the back room of the store you have with low light and then in bright light.I believe there exist diminishing returns on objective size.I don't feel my 52 mm objective is any brighter than my 50 mm objective but that's with my older eyes.Younger eyes may see it differently.
Enjoy the chase to the best optic's you can afford as it will be with you for a long long time and so will bad purchase decisions.
Just my 2 cents
Old Rooster
If light transmission is your main concern then this might help: The male human eye dilates to approximately 7 mm in low light. If the diameter of the circle of light that leaves the ocular lens of the scope is less than 7 mm you could use more light if more than 7 mm the excess will not, in fact, enter your eye. To determine the optimum exit pupilary diameter from a scope divide the diameter of the objective lens by 7 mm (your dilated pupil's diameter).
If you have a 56 mm objective it would = 8X for maximum useful light transmission.
If you have a 50 mm objective it would = 7X for maximum useful light transmission.
As you can see there is very little difference in optimum magnification for useful illumination. As a result, in keeping with other comments, the ability to mount the scope lower to the action my be your primary concern.
I'm guessing the two scopes you are looking at are the Leupold VX-5HD 3-15X44mm vs. the 3-15X56mm. (There is a 7-35X56mm scope, too, so knowing the magnification range matters in advising you.)
IF you go with the 44mm objective scope and want to use it at 15X, the exit pupil (circle of light going into your eye) is only going to be 2.93mm. In my opinion, that's too small unless you are 70+ years old (at which point, that's about as big as your pupil is anyway.) If you are okay using the scope at magnifications of 11X or less (which would give you a 4mm exit pupil, and larger) then the 44mm objective scope will be fine. But then it begs the question - why bother getting the 15X 'capability' if it really doesn't matter?
The larger objective scope (56mm) @ 15x will be giving you a 3.73mm exit pupil (circle of light for your eye to see) which is just under the 4mm threshold I consider as necessary in low-light conditions when our pupils will be larger than they are during the brightness of daylight. If you want to see a full, bright image at 15X, even at dawn and dusk - without having to search for, and line up, the image behind the scope - you want the 56mm objective lens.
This means taller scope rings and perhaps an adjustable check rest to get a proper cheek weld. No free lunches here. Smaller scope sits lower and a gun with a high comb will work 'as is' with it. But it can't be used as easily/effectively as the power of the scope is cranked up.
A maximum 10X scope with a 40mm or larger objective lens is just about perfect for most hunting. But this is the LRH forum, so 'normal' and 'most' goes out the window a lot on here.
It you really want to use that 15X power, you'd be better off with the larger objective, but there is a price to pay (cheek weld to the stock is lost?)
I'm in the eye biz and kids under 10 y/o can have pupils as big as 10mm in low light! Most 70 year olds and up have small pupils (3mm or less.) Just a fact of life - get older and pupils get smaller. That's why grandpa always wants more light to see stuff around the shop or house. Aging - it ain't for sissies.
IF you go with the 44mm objective scope and want to use it at 15X, the exit pupil (circle of light going into your eye) is only going to be 2.93mm. In my opinion, that's too small unless you are 70+ years old (at which point, that's about as big as your pupil is anyway.) If you are okay using the scope at magnifications of 11X or less (which would give you a 4mm exit pupil, and larger) then the 44mm objective scope will be fine. But then it begs the question - why bother getting the 15X 'capability' if it really doesn't matter?
The larger objective scope (56mm) @ 15x will be giving you a 3.73mm exit pupil (circle of light for your eye to see) which is just under the 4mm threshold I consider as necessary in low-light conditions when our pupils will be larger than they are during the brightness of daylight. If you want to see a full, bright image at 15X, even at dawn and dusk - without having to search for, and line up, the image behind the scope - you want the 56mm objective lens.
This means taller scope rings and perhaps an adjustable check rest to get a proper cheek weld. No free lunches here. Smaller scope sits lower and a gun with a high comb will work 'as is' with it. But it can't be used as easily/effectively as the power of the scope is cranked up.
A maximum 10X scope with a 40mm or larger objective lens is just about perfect for most hunting. But this is the LRH forum, so 'normal' and 'most' goes out the window a lot on here.
It you really want to use that 15X power, you'd be better off with the larger objective, but there is a price to pay (cheek weld to the stock is lost?)
I'm in the eye biz and kids under 10 y/o can have pupils as big as 10mm in low light! Most 70 year olds and up have small pupils (3mm or less.) Just a fact of life - get older and pupils get smaller. That's why grandpa always wants more light to see stuff around the shop or house. Aging - it ain't for sissies.
