444 marlin

[Dean2]

I did not say you can shoot Ruger 1 loads or even Bolt gun loads out of a 444 Marlin Lever. What I said is the Marlin lever is stronger than any BREAK action single shot. I also said that even a a Ruger or a Bolt gun you cannot upload a 444 enough to make any realistic performance difference over what you can get out of the Marlin lever and that there was a poor selection of bullets in 444. There are no spire points I know of outside the FTX, which doesn't perform that great even at Lever speeds, so what is the advantage to running a traditional 444 bullet 400 FPS faster. In fact most of those bullets won't perform well at higher speeds anyhow. Certain cartridges are best used as originally designed and the 444 is one of them. There are FAR better choices to make a bolt gun out of like the 450 Marlin 458x2, 350 Legend, etc. .

 

[savagebrother01]

hey guys i live in ohio also. one thing should be mentioned is the cartridge cannot be smaller than .357 dia.
i chose to go with the 375 win. out of a 22" barrel i shooting 200gr sierra flat point at 2350 FPS. shoots a lot flatter than their bigger brothers and at way less recoil. if you want to really hammer something you can load 250gr bullets at 2200 FPS with buffalo bore ammo. accuracy is around an inch at 100yds, it as you know is a shortened 38-55 which began life as a match cartridge.
SB

 

[Charles Keethler]

For the state of Ohio try the 45-70 , for the big stuff Buffalo Bore 405 gr. 2000 muzzle , look at my avatar one shot ,125 yds drt, other loads Hor. 325 gr. good to 350 yds.

 

[112Savage]

Search on marlin owners forum for SG444 a guy with the handle Flattop had his marlin long throated and extended the feeding mechanism to allow longer OAL And then used heavy lead bullets and higher powder charges to greatly increase the ft/lbs and TKO numbers. You could do the same or more in a bolt action.

 

[ntsqd]

All of this talk about rimmed problems in a bolt action have me wondering how well the .30-40 Krag, .303 Brit, and the 7.62X54R worked. Being rifles for infantry makes me think that they were at least somewhat reliable? Can't recall MISF ever having any feeding issues with his Mosin-Nagant, but since it kicks the dog-carp out of him he doesn't shoot it all that often. I will guess that there are some lessons to be learned by studying these actions to see how they were made to work with rimmed cases.

Since the .444 uses bullets of Ø.429" that gives it a likely BC advantage over the same bullet mass in a Ø.458" May not mean much to trajectory in the range under discussion, but it should yield better energy retention.

 

[J E Custom]

Marlin made the 444 in two barrel lengths(24")and the longer one definitely has an advantage in energy and velocity. They are getting harder to find, but I still see a few for sale. So you may be able to find one.

As for lever action strength, I would have to disagree that they are as strong as bolt actions.

The 444 max design pressure is 44,000 PSI Most bottleneck cartridges are designed to operate from 53,000 PSI to 65,000 PSI. with a few in the 48,000 Psi range.

The only lever actions that are capable of the 65,000 Psi pressures are the falling block actions like the Ruger and the browning high wall. Many loading manuals have three different load requirements for the same cartridge in different actions.
The 45/70 is just one of these.
The design pressure of the trapdoor is 28,000. in the lever rifles like the Winchester it is 40,000 due to the bolt loading from the larger case head.
Due to case strength of the 45/70 maximum pressures are held to 50,000 Psi in modern bolt action rifles and falling blocks.

So Don't assume that the marlin is as strong as a bolt action !!! Even the 450 marlin is held to 43,500 Psi even though it is a modern design, But it is still a Winchester/marlin designed Action and has strength limits.

As far as the Single shot TC Encore Actions (Not the contender)they are designed for cartridges in the 55,000 Psi to 65,000 psi range.

Never exceed the load data pressures for a cartridge because of action or case design.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Charles Keethler]

Saw a white tail doe shot in shoulder with 444 blew the leg off did not enter body cavity had to finish with pistol.

 

[CHAGA50]

Bigcountry8530 If you want A TC single shot get one in 405 Winchester with a scope

 

[J E Custom]

Saw a white tail doe shot in shoulder with 444 blew the leg off did not enter body cavity had to finish with pistol.

I had the same thing happen to me hunting with the 444 Pistol and Pistol bullets but mine went through and took the opposite side shoulder off.,so I switched to rifle bullets for the 444 and never had a problem with any game.

I have shot varmints, hogs and deer out to Just under 300 yards with the pistol and farther with the rifle, And the 265 grain Spear have been my go to bullet. I think they now make it is a 270 grain weight and it is a hot core.

Most of the 240 grain grain pistol bullets will not handle the velocity and are very explosive. I don't recommend any pistol bullet in the 444 Marlin.

J E CUSTOM

 

[freddiej]

I own two 444 Marlin levers. I use them for pigs. I never thought of them for deer or much of anything else. This thread also makes the choice for my Visit to my Uncle's place next year. Oh, he lives in Ohio north of Columbus. Now I know what guns to take. I also have a single shot 45-70. I am glad I stopped by here and read some of these posts.

 

[Dean2]

All of this talk about rimmed problems in a bolt action have me wondering how well the .30-40 Krag, .303 Brit, and the 7.62X54R worked. Being rifles for infantry makes me think that they were at least somewhat reliable? Can't recall MISF ever having any feeding issues with his Mosin-Nagant, but since it kicks the dog-carp out of him he doesn't shoot it all that often. I will guess that there are some lessons to be learned by studying these actions to see how they were made to work with rimmed cases.

Since the .444 uses bullets of Ø.429" that gives it a likely BC advantage over the same bullet mass in a Ø.458" May not mean much to trajectory in the range under discussion, but it should yield better energy retention.

There is a big difference in bolt face and construction in battle rifles made for rimmed cartridges versus modern bolt action rifles.. The 303 Lee Enfield was a spectacular battle rifle, but it is far from the strongest action in he world. The rear bolt lugs and design do not lend themselves well the high pressure loads.

 

[Pat Byrne]

What about the 225 grain Barnes all copper pistol bullet? Think it would be ok in the .444 ?

 

[azarcher10x]

What about the 225 grain Barnes all copper pistol bullet? Think it would be ok in the .444 ?

That's what we settled on for our 444 wildcat.

 

[ntsqd]

There is a big difference in bolt face and construction in battle rifles made for rimmed cartridges versus modern bolt action rifles.. The 303 Lee Enfield was a spectacular battle rifle, but it is far from the strongest action in he world. The rear bolt lugs and design do not lend themselves well the high pressure loads.

We're hardly looking at Magnum pressures with this cartridge. I doubt that action strength is going to be an issue unless the action chosen turns out to be one of the bad H-T 03-A3's or something like that. I still think that there are lessons that can be learned from those actions in how to feed a rimmed cartridge in a bolt action even if none of them are chosen to base the proposed rifle on. A CRF action *might* be the way to go instead of an action with a pocketed bolt face. Maybe or maybe not for the CRF function itself, but as a simple way to get away from a pocketed bolt face.