375 Allen Mag load data ready, with pics...

[lazylabs]

Newcon?

I seen at least one good eval posted on the Newcon range finders and they have a 3K model. Has anyone tested these? I think the review was on the 2K model. I have the lieca 1200 and seem to be constantly disappointed with it. I have pretty much limited it to 800 on fairly flat ground. Kirby mentioned earlier that when in antelope country ranging just FLAT sucks. I don't know about you guys but I would like a little more mass and optical power. Newcon 3K reviews anyone??

 

[Augustus]

Thanks Kirby for the reply, I can see you are a gentleman. I too have shot a few rounds at long range with some pretty good equipment. As I stated you were shooting rifles at the top of the food chain and I dont doubt your skill to use them. The absence of wind certianly helped in your endeavor, if you can duplicate this feat consistantly, I for one will shake your hand with the utmost respect. Putting togather a system that can perform at this level is a feat that deserves International attention. To be honest and with no intended disrepect I prefer to see this in person before passing judgement one way or the other. You folks dont know me or how much I set behind a computer or how much time I have spent behind a rifle,I will say that I have been behind a rifle enough to know that the information put forth by Fifty is extordinary and would win any long range match anywhere in the world. Also how long an individual has been registered on a website, how many post he has made, or how many he has read has nothing to do with the knowledge that individual has or does not have about a subject. I learned a long time ago to blindly follow no one and questioning usually has no adverse effect on truthfulness. For those who may be offended I make no apologies nor do I ask for any. Thanks again Kirby for the response and If I become convinced that these rifles are capable of this kind of perfomance, I will have you build one for me if you are not to unhappy with me.

 

[michael A.]

QUOTE if you can duplicate this feat consistantly, I for one will shake your hand with the utmost respect.


Hmmmmm i'm pretty sure he diserves (and has) everyones utmost respect allready...atleast everyone that has ever shot a rifle!

 

[ss7mm]

Augustus:

I have read some of your posts and also some about you on another site so I know you're not new to this but there is something I don't understand.

if you can duplicate this feat consistantly, I for one will shake your hand with the utmost respect.

Why would you say this when Kirby has already told you that he cannot shoot this well under all conditions and that would fall under your "consistently" criteria.

And, if he can do this "consistently", you say

I for one will shake your hand with the utmost respect.

Sounds to me like you'll show him no respect unless he can do something that he told you he can't do.

Putting togather a system that can perform at this level is a feat that deserves International attention.

He gets that right here if you'd put your eyes and brain in gear before you do your mouth. Then you wouldn't have to be getting out your trusty "flag". Not everyone has to compete nor do they want to.

I learned a long time ago to blindly follow no one and questioning usually has no adverse effect on truthfulness.

And I learned a long time ago to pay very little attention to those that bad mouth someone before they know that person.

For those who may be offended I make no apologies nor do I ask for any.

I don't really think anyone is really offended by what you say, and most notably Kirby. He's not the type to be offended by a statement based on a verrrry limited amount of reading and knowledge about a person and his capabilities. I also doubt that anyone here would ask you to apologize. Given your limited knowledge of the person involved and the fact that you don't hesitate to put his abilities and his equipment's abilities down, an apology would really mean nothing.

Thanks again Kirby for the response and If I become convinced that these rifles are capable of this kind of perfomance, I will have you build one for me if you are not to unhappy with me.

I agree with a person's knowledge not being judged by his posts or time on a site but by the same token that person with limited posts and forum reading should show a little better judgement before he makes what I consider to be derogatory statements.

Should you ever decide to have Kirby build you a rifle of the type that he talks about in this thread, then you will be one lucky SOB.

I have a rifle that Kirby built and to say it's the best would be an understatement. To say how well it shoots would be an understatement. To tell you what it's capable of would just cause you to whip out the 'ol "flag" again and that would be a waste of time for all of us.

I'd just hope that someday you get to experience his "handiwork" and then we'll see what your comments are. But if it's good, then I will only shake your hand if you can do it "consisteltly". Otherwise I'll have to whip out the 'ol BS flag.

Have a nice day, keep reading, and put forth some of what I know you can post that would be beneficial to all of us. The typed and read word can sometimes be misleading and for that I will cut you some slack and we have no idea what thoughts you have in your head that are tied to what you type.

Where 'bouts do you live? Hell.....someone on here with an APS rifle might even let you shoot it. I know you have the room to stretch one out. But, if you shoot one you have to do it "consisteltly".

 

[Pdvdh]

Augustus,

You've introduced yourself poorly, and then remained indignant after a receiving a lengthy, detailed response to your BS flag post by stating "For those who may be offended I make no apologies nor do I ask for any." That statement tells me you've entered this arena more than once in the past, and speaks to your character. After spouting off from such an uninformed position, giving you the benefit of the doubt is more than you deserve. SS7mm --- your critique was reasoned and timely. Fiftydriver --- FWIW, others appreciated the detail provided in your response; so don't feel like you wasted a good effort on a bad cause.

 

[AJ Peacock]

Augustus,

I've never met Kirby in person. I did have him build me a 338AM and in good conditions, it will hit within 1/2moa of POA, OR BETTER out to 1502 yards (thats as far as I've played with it).

Shooting it at 1000yds is indeed 'like kicking your dog'! Shooting it at less than 1000yds at game animals is something to behold!

Augustus, where are you located? There are a number of these rifles out there and I don't doubt at all the post that Kirby made. If you've shot at long range before, you WOULD be duly impressed with this cartridge.

Just for your information, at 1502 yards, we were trying to hit a 4"x4" target and couldn't get it done, however we had less than 30 rounds down the tube and were using some mixed brass with an untested load. If we had been shooting at a basketball sized target, we would have been hitting it much more often than missing it!

AJ

 

[Augustus]

Gentlemen, I read all of the responses and consider all but one to be fair and somewhat less heated than expected. I have been around the horn and shooters seem to be more protective of their turf than just about any group of people. When I read Kirbys post concerning the hits on distant targets I came away with the impression that this was routine and that it was being done in windy conditions. He stated he missed the 1300+ target due to wind so by his own admission wind was part of the equation. After he shared how he set the test up I can see that it could be perfectly still through most of the test and then get caught by a little brief puff. The claim that a .172 moa target at 2200 yds. can be routinly hit with anybodies rifle is absurd. I now understsnd that Kirby makes no such claim; however he did hit it on that particular day. I do think all of you guys could gather up on any given day and back 2200 yds away from a 4'' target and commence firing. I would not be at all surprised if at the end of the day if everyone went home with two or three pounds of empty cases, a burned out barrel and and a bruised ego, leaving the little clay pigeon intact. At least one gentleman seemed to be upset because I have not introduced myself. I really didnt see the need because I m just another Joe that likes to shoot . I used to love to hunt and did lots of it out of necessity from a very early age. I have been with the Okla. Highway Patrol for 22 years and Have been assigned to the felon apprehension unit. I have a pack of ten hounds that run off leash and run men down just as some of you have witnessed on lion or hog hunting ventures. I have got to old and stiff to keep up on foot so I ride a mule. (The flop eared kind) After five years of this and being subjected to several hundred megadoses of adrenalin the hunting of animals no longer do it for me. I now just shoot, train hounds and wait for the phone call . Well there you are, you now know more about me than I know about you. I still make no apoligies for anything Ive posted and in the future if I see something that I percieve as questionable I will probably do so. You guys have succeeded in sparking my interest in this system and I think I will see If Kirby wants to build one for this SOB. I have two more projects going right now so it will be a few months. In closing I will say again if this has offended anyone on this website to the point that they think I should not post here ,please let me know I have plenty of other things to occupy my days and nights.

 

[ss7mm]

I now understsnd that Kirby makes no such claim; however he did hit it on that particular day.

Thanks for re-reading and understanding what he was saying. Like I said, what gets typed and what it's interpreted as can sometimes be far different.

I still make no apoligies for anything Ive posted and in the future if I see something that I percieve as questionable I will probably do so.

That's a little weird considering the fact that you have conceded that what you said Kirby said vs. what you now say you know he said, and meant, is two different things. I'd say the BS flag should be withdrawn and an apology to Kirby is forthcoming but, I guess if that's your character then you've made your personal resume very clear. How about tempering your writing with a little more reading and understanding and a little less perceiving?

You guys have succeeded in sparking my interest in this system and I think I will see If Kirby wants to build one for this SOB.

You would be very fortunate to have one of his guns, if he'd build you one.

In closing I will say again if this has offended anyone on this website to the point that they think I should not post here ,please let me know I have plenty of other things to occupy my days and nights.

I for one am not offended, just disappointed, and see no need for you to go anywhere. I just like the fact that you've set the bar level for your future posts as well as your assessments of people and their posts.

And by the way, I withdraw the statement about knowing you from another site. I made a mistake as there is no similarity whatsoever. There is a big difference in names ending in "is" vs. "us".

 

[lerch]

I own a few of the Allen Mags and speciafically one of the first 338AM built. In WY this last year i set up on a 1170yd pdog. to be completely honest the gun wasnt really zeroed but we got a range and compensated for drop and fired 2 shots later there was a dead dog at 1170yds. Needless to say i was more than impressed, 1000yd shots really are just simple with this thing.

I am in El Reno just 1.5mi off of I-40 at Gene Sears Supply so if you ever wanna see one of the guns just stop by, you said you were OHP so you probably know where the store is.

take it easy
steve

 

[Augustus]

Yeah, I was in your store a couple months ago and bought a few supplies, next time Im in the city I will stop in and have a look. Thanks

 

[Fiftydriver]

Augustus,

One thing you will learn about me is that I generally do not get overly excited when someone challanges me or the performance of my wildcats or things I have done with my rifles. WHen my friends are attacked that can often be a different story but that is beside the point.

Why is this, well, because I get alot of it. When I started the Allen Magnum projects, I got railed for them being nothing but barrel burning monsters that would go through barrels faster then you could get a quality load developed for the rifle.

It is true my wildcats are not all barrel friendly but it is untrue about the latter comment.

I tend to never try to "convince" others. You would waste your life away doing this. I make no claims about being the best out there, hardly. I can shoot, in good conditions I can shoot pretty **** well at long range. In ideal conditions with a rifle I am intimately familiar with, I admit, certain things have happened that even make me sit back and think about but it has happened enough not that I am not suprised.

You will also learn that I do not embelish anything I do when I report on things. Why, because if I did I would be out of business in a hurry. My customers demand a certain level of performance. The fact that I get the reviews I do from my customers give me all the confidence I need in my products without even playing with them myself.

To be brutally honest, I have customers that shoot my rifles much better then I could. Some have posted on this topic already. There are guys on LRH that have skills that make me look silly, hunting and shooting with my friend Shawn Carlock when I hunted whitetail with him really showed me that.

In the swirling winds of his canyon country, I was a fish out of water but we got the job done on a fine Idaho whitetail buck at 850 yards in large part due to the confidence I had with Shawn sitting next to me and calling my shots and conditions.

I report what happens when I shoot as everyone else does on LRH. Have I done a few extraordinary things in the last few years. Yes but I have done alot more things that were no different then anyone here on LRH.

Again, I would never try to convince someone to order one of my rifles. I do not advertise, I just talk about my rifles and what I do with them as do my customers. If the rifles shoot, I get more business, if the rifles do not perform, my rifle orders stop. Currently, I am getting orders faster then I can get rifles out so I am very happy with business.

If you want a fine long range rifle I can certainly do that for you as can many other smiths that frequent here on LRH. I would never say my rifles are better then any of theirs because they are all top quality smiths.

I would also never ask for an apology. You stated your feelings. I do believe they were unfounded but that is besides the point. At least you had the courage to say what you thought and that is to be respected.

IF you read my posts from now on, you will learn I post the successes and the disappointments with my wildcats and I pull no punches. When something works I tell you, when something really was a stinker, I tell that as well.

WHen I shot that rockchuck at 2370 yards with Black Sunshine, I was getting stories from customers that had read about this on many forums where it was simply reported as a hoax. So be it. If anyone wants to come out and step it off, I will be more then willing to take anyone out to the exact spot and they can measure it however they like.

That is the point, if your telling the trueth, there is no reason to become offended by those that discredit you and your achievements. That is how I feel and your opinion of my post does not offend me in any way. Speak your feelings.

About you posting on LRH, I do not know you hardly at all but I would never want to give anyone the impression they are not welcome to post on LRH or to respond to my posts even if they disagree with something I have posted.

If you post on a public forum, you open yourself up to attacks and that is the reason you had better not post fictional events, especially when your dealing with your way of life. I am no different then anyone else, somedays I shoot very well, impressing my self. Somedays I should just stay in the shop and not even load a rifle........

Take care, no offense taken in any way. But I will say, if you have to have it proven to you that my rifles shoot before you would buy one, maybe there are other smiths out there that you would be more comfortable ordering a rifle from simply on their name. I would rather have you order a rifle based on the rifles performance, I could care less if you recognize my name.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Augustus]

Well Kirby, I am interested in having you build a rifle,as stated before I am in the middle of two builds now so it will be a while. I dont know if I misunderstood your comment about lifestyles but it seems there may be some doubt about my profession and what I do in that capacity. Yeah it sounds a little over the top but it is true. Every one of the manhunts I have been on is well documented in the records of our Department, in countless newspaper articles, in the court records of various counties in the state, in the minds of all the people who has witnessed these things go down. The dogs names are Spot,Gus,Rocky,Pierre,Pat,Pepper,Blackjack,Sugar,Tojo and Sam. Dawn was killed during a chase about three months ago. The Mules names are Sally and Chester. Chester will kick your pants off if you surprise him from behind. One of my LTs can vouch for this attribute.

 

[jrivera1]

I too will smile if a .9 375 bullet becomes available that is affordable and available---- until someone produces one with a 1.5 BC. That bullet may be here, how it performs remains to be seen. Let me say up front that I have no dog in this hunt except that I want the best of what is available to allow me to make first round hits way over yonder. Run the numbers on the differences between a BC of .8 and 1.5 at different distances and velocities. I predict high BC bullets expelled out of fast gain twisted barrels will take long range shooting by storm in the next couple of years. There will be hiccups all along the line but they will be overcome and as better materials and manufacturing processes are developed we as shooters will benefit. I think in the next year or so you will see a 14 to 15 lb rifle that will send a 400+ gr bullet 3400+ with 1.5 BC and a 10000 round barrel life. We will think that is the do all end all rifle until someone perfects technology that is capable of sending a projectile at twice that speed with a barrel life of 20000. Its coming. The rifles we are shooting now will be obsolete and our grand kids will set around an artificial log fire and joke about our rifles that we now believe have evolved to the ultimate.

6 Years later and no holy grail rifle unfortunately, but this was one hell of a Thread. Thank you everyone.

 

[Augustus]

Yep, I drank the cool-aid. The 1.5 BC Vikings turned out to be a pipes dream. The 10000 Rd ceramic barrels has not come to fruition. I tinkered with several of the CNC solids and the tight gain twist barrels. It looks like the top BC for the .375 has peaked somewhere between .95 and 1.0 depending on who you listen to.

There may be advances in the future but it looks as though the low hanging fruit has been picked.