338 win mag bear bullet

[johnlittletree]

Last year I got the opportunity to help guide in the Bristol Bay area of Alaska for brown bear. It was a great experience and it's about all I think about now. Headed back in August 19. Our first client we had was shooting a 338 win mag and I thought nothing of it. Well after poor performance on a brown bear at 100+/- yards, tracking it into an alder patch and having to finish her with a 375 Ruger mag. Skip ahead a couple days to bear number two. Shot at about the same distance, bear takes off into the alders never to be seen again, ending the hunt for the client, costing him a trophy fee and really upsetting me. I don't like to leave a wounded animal in the field. It got me thinking is 338wm enough gun? It wasn't till the next day we flew out of camp I saw his bullet selection, 200 grain sst....I'm guessing here is our problem. Caliber is discussed with the client but never bullet selection. No, as a helper/assistant and now apprentice working towards my guide license its not my place to suggest what bullet to use. With the clients we have, alot of them have little hunting experience, they go buy a fancy gun in a large caliber and the first box of bullets they see and go for it.

So going forth in preparation for the bear hunts we are now wanting to suggest bullets for the clients to use for a given caliber. 338 and 375 are by far the most used. I was thinking Nosler partition? but after that I don't really know. Thought about Barnes, but will they expand at close range? Would like some more input on 338 win mag, 375 hh and 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, I doubt any of these guys reload.

Hope you made it through my long/short story and don't bash on me......I'm far from a writer!

It is if you do not load something idiotic like a VLD bullet designed for target shooting with slightly harder lead alloy and repacked as a Hunting bullet. In fact a 30-06 would do the job with a 220 grain round nose. I do not get Brown Bear in my area just Black Bear. People have been using 45-70 and even 44 Mag hand guns in a pinch. It takes the right bullet something tough and as always good shot placement. The Black bear in my area are taken with bow, shotguns, 30-06SPR, 270 Win, and I think I even know a guy that shot one with a 243 Win....I had a friend stationed at Kodiac Island so I know that our little Black Bear are nothing compared to what you have roaming around Alsaka.

You want bullets like the Swift A-Frame 250-275gr., 250gr. Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX 250gr.-285gr., Speer GrandSlam 250gr.. Bear are not that hard to bring down if you get a good shot at their vitals the dreaded thing is the charging bear and making sure you can penetrate the skull. Bear are built really solid they have tons of muscle, fat and a lot of heavy tendons, ligaments and fascia. You have to have penetration above all else as a bear get's larger and larger. It has to have enough mass and weight retention and a heavy jacket so it will keep penetrating even if it hits bone. I am assuming you are not hunting bear at 1200m so ballistics is not the real issue it is bullet construction for penetration.

The reason a 300 WM or even a 30-06 can out perform a lot of 338WM Ammo at the ranges we hunt big bear at is that a 30Cal 220gr. round nose bullet is more likely to penetrate deeply than a 200gr.-250gr. in a .338 caliber bullet. At close range the difference in muzzle velocity is not an issue. If you have too much velocity at close range and a thin jacket on the bullet and hit bone good chance the bullet will fragment and stop penetrating. Most of the factory loaded ammo for .338 WM is what I call Elk and Moose Ammo especially the 200gr.-225gr. stuff with ballistic tips and and other fairly weak jackets. That said if shot placement is good even that stuff should get the job done. On a bear it is how thick they are and how fast they can run for a short distance making it hard to get a clean second shot if your in heavy brush or woods. The fur is so heavy that if you do not get a through and through you might not get a blood trail either. Quartering shots on a Brown Bear can be problematic again that is a lot of fatty meat and a lot of connective tissue to have to get through. I used one for years and I sold it to my Father in law and he took it to Afrika 3 times as he thin skinned game gun and harvested insane numbers of animals.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/rel...es-338-winchester-magnum-the-original-alaskan

 

[tigerwerkes]

I have two 338's, one a win 70 extreme ss and the other a beretta Mato. Of all the guns in my safe I grab the Mato first when it matters or when I'm paying for results. Over the years I've loaded pretty much everything there is to send through it and I always come back to 225 accubonds for open country and 250 partitions when stone cold stopping power takes priority. I get sub moa in pretty much any hunting condition with accubonds and the partitions dismantle shoulders two at a time like wrecking balls. I threw away the rest of the 1st box of SSTs I had shortly after they came out and haven't bought any since. They were pretty much worthless to me for a lot of reasons. For me it doesn't make sense to shoot an economy bullet in 338 wm. I only practice with 3 shot groups from a cold barrel because that's the most realistic for my most likely hunting conditions. The beauty of the 225 accubonds for me is that it's easy to find several smaller caliber rounds that have nearly identical BC and velocity which lets me practice very similar ranging, drop, and drift out to 7-800yds. I get 2960 with RL-19 on the 225s.

 

[Enduro4fun]

I shoot 210gr Barnes TTSX with my 338WM with a fairly hot load and everything I have shot with it from 15yds to 300yrds has dropped on the spot. No bear but elk .

 

[RH300UM]

]I reload all my ammo.

But in Factory loads I'd be looking for shells containing 1) Swift A-Frame, 2) Trophy Bonded (Speer), 3) Nosler Partition, and 4) Nosler Accubond - in that preferential order. Those are the ones I believe are loaded in Factory ammo, that I can think of at the moment.

Behind those 4 bullets, I'd consider a Barnes TTSX or TSX. The Barnes will penetrate deeper, but likely with less immediate shock effect. Still a good bullet, all in all, in those larger calibers.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't use a Nosler bullet especially on big bears unless it's 375 or bigger. We've seen a lot of failures as in they expand/fragment way to fast and do not penetrate deep.
Aframes or Sciroccos#1 for loaded ammo.
If they reload HammerBullets are the pick.
I use a Hammer Hunter in my 375 RUM guide rifle. They shoot great and penetrate.

 

[tomsd]

On Dangerous Game - to quote famous Safari writer Robert Roark:
"USE ENOUGH GUN" !
Why not go .375 to be safe?

 

[Hoppsing55]

Point of impact! A 30-06 / 180 - 200 gr well constructed bullet into the heart / lungs of any bear will end its life in "short order". A 375 wooptydo through the guts or in the rump, will not make for a clean humane kill. Be proficient with the appropriate tool.

 

[BRENT ERWIN]

No matter what caliber you use you have to have a bullet that can do what you are asking it to do. TTSX is a great bullet, but I would not try to take a Bear with a 180gr TTSX. I have put many moose on the ground with that round out of a 300 win mag with that round. For bear you really need a tough construction bullet with penetration and in my opinion a minimum of 250gr of bullet weight. If you have a 338 it will do the job, just get the right bullet. If you are looking to buy a rifle just for bear - again 375 HH is the most popular option in Alaska. There is a reason every lodge up here has at least a few boxes of .375 ammo in it.

 

[Bigaldepr]

I agree with you. I'm just saying it was not my place or really responsibility to question it. It was my first time guiding/helping. Now knowing that was probably the issue I questioned the guide I'm working with and he said it just slipped his mind. But he's glad I brought up bullet selection and not just caliber selection.

Just a little word of advise from an old guy. Everyone has a responsibility to question something that they have good reason to believe is wrong. This being your first assignment how you phrase the question is important. Something like "Does he have the right bullet? it seems a little soft to me." This gives your boss the opportunity to either teach you something or agree and correct the situation. As you stated he forgot, no matter the experience level everybody forgets something sometime.

 

[FIGJAM]

The reason a 300 WM or even a 30-06 can out perform a lot of 338WM Ammo at the ranges we hunt big bear at is that a 30Cal 220gr. round nose bullet is more likely to penetrate deeply than a 200gr.-250gr. in a .338 caliber bullet.

This is an interesting point. I haven't ever hunted brown bear, but I would think a heavy for caliber bullet with high sectional densities in .30, 338, or even 7mm (180gr) would be the key to penetration and getting to the vitals.

 

[Pdvdh]

View attachment 119335
I wouldn't use a Nosler bullet especially on big bears unless it's 375 or bigger. We've seen a lot of failures as in they expand/fragment way to fast and do not penetrate deep.
Aframes or Sciroccos#1 for loaded ammo.

The OP specified "Would like some more input on 338 win mag, 375 hh and 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, I doubt any of these guys reload."

Nosler Partition in any of those cartridges will have sufficient stoutness.

Run them at 300 RUM, 338 RUM, 375 RUM muzzle velocities, or any of the Allen Magnum MVs, and the Swift A-Frame and Trophy Bonded bullets would be the better option. In fact, they're the better option even in 338 WM, 375 Ruger, and 375 H&H, IMO.

 

[Guillaume Phillippe Ruff]

Last year I got the opportunity to help guide in the Bristol Bay area of Alaska for brown bear. It was a great experience and it's about all I think about now. Headed back in August 19. Our first client we had was shooting a 338 win mag and I thought nothing of it. Well after poor performance on a brown bear at 100+/- yards, tracking it into an alder patch and having to finish her with a 375 Ruger mag. Skip ahead a couple days to bear number two. Shot at about the same distance, bear takes off into the alders never to be seen again, ending the hunt for the client, costing him a trophy fee and really upsetting me. I don't like to leave a wounded animal in the field. It got me thinking is 338wm enough gun? It wasn't till the next day we flew out of camp I saw his bullet selection, 200 grain sst....I'm guessing here is our problem. Caliber is discussed with the client but never bullet selection. No, as a helper/assistant and now apprentice working towards my guide license its not my place to suggest what bullet to use. With the clients we have, alot of them have little hunting experience, they go buy a fancy gun in a large caliber and the first box of bullets they see and go for it.

So going forth in preparation for the bear hunts we are now wanting to suggest bullets for the clients to use for a given caliber. 338 and 375 are by far the most used. I was thinking Nosler partition? but after that I don't really know. Thought about Barnes, but will they expand at close range? Would like some more input on 338 win mag, 375 hh and 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, I doubt any of these guys reload.

Hope you made it through my long/short story and don't bash on me......I'm far from a writer!

Comment:
Use enough gun is the best advice that one can give in my view: shot placement cant be guaranteed, but if the power, caliber and penetration are well over the minimum, the job will get done. After having tried many calibres, over nearly 40 years hunting, I retained the 338 lapua magnum 250 grs nosler partition for long distance on medium game, 375 HH mag 300 grs Remington A frame on mediuum game at shorter distances (up to 150 yards) or where think bush is to be encountered, and 460 weatherby Mag for big and/or dangerous game (Africa).
The shocking effect of the 375 HH is considerably better than the 338 LM's, so chances of loosing wounded game are quite remote, and the shocking effect and damage caused by the 460 Weatherby are impressive.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

To answer your question about expansion on the Barnes. These will expand at close range and longer ranges as they are designed to. They will also retain their weight after expansion because they do not fragment. You might loose a chunk of the expanded petals if you hit heavy bone but all in all they will hold their weight and that makes them penetrate deeper than a bullet that sheds its weight by fragmenting. Fragmentation shortens penetration, Think bullets with lead inside their jackets. The partition is an exception because of the rear end section of lead is encapsulated in a copper section of its own.

 

[Scubaman]

.375 Ruger with Barnes TTSX 300 gr. works for me.

 

[Will83]

Not much of a writer and a ------ guide, by the way, dudes that hunt bears have tiny dicks.

I think this guy^may be a PETA puller if you know what I mean.