338 Ultra Mag and 338 Lapua Recoil

[Brent]

Dakor,

When you get up here I'll let you toss a few downrange with my Brother's 338/378 WBY with the 300 grainers, you'll see I'm not joking.

I've said this on here before but, my Brother's 18 year old girlfriend, maybe 100 lbs, wet, she fired it on out to 900 yards 9 times from the box of my 6-wheeler off the bipod. She hit everything she shot until she got out to 900 yards, then she was only just inches away from this stick she was shooting at on the sand bar below us. She was close enough to kill a Moose every shot she fired. The only gun she'd ever fired in her life I believe was a 30-30 once before. She'd of kept on shooting if he'd of had more ammo, heck, she just kept on blasting away.

Ya see, I think she just never had anyone tell her it was a BIG cartridge, after all, the case was the same size as my 416 WBY??? I asked her if she wanted to shoot the 416 and with that she replied; "HELL NO! I see how hard that thing kicks!"

 

[dakor]

The problem I have with the big boomers is not when I am shooting off a bipod or on the bench it is when I am kneeling or off hand. All my scopes right now have a 3 inch eye Relief but when you crank them up to 20 X you get about 2.5 inches so even my 300 will kiss me sometimes I have had many people watch me shoot off hand to see what I am doing wrong but everyone says it looks like I am holding the rifle the way I should.

But when I hold my rifles I do not grip the gun real tight either because I move to much I just relax my shoulders and let the recoil surprise me. I guess I probably need a 4 inch eye relief that way the scope would not touch me once and a while and I would not really care what the recoil is. I shoot 3 inch 1 once slugs in my 870 and that does not bother me but I dont have to worry about a scope either. Anyone one have any suggestions? or a scope to reccommend? I might just need more practice off hand as I shoot with a rest most of the time.

 

[460wby]

I've shot a lot with my 338 RUM without any muzzlebrake. My rifle is a Custom Win pre'64, SS, with a laminated classic stock on it. And with a Conquest 3,5-10x44 #4 on it, it weights approx.4,5kg. I mostly shoot 250 grainers at approx. 3000f/s, and thats a good hunting load. I dont have any brakes on any of my "heavy" rifles. (460wby, 416 Taylor, or the 338 RUM)I mostly uses them for hunting, and my hearing is bad enough as is already. And ONE shoot with that muzzlebrake, and not using earprotecters wil be fatal for me. I have installed the Pachmayr Triple Mag.X recoil absorber on the rifle and that helped alot. I shoot it prone, kneeling, sitting, of hand, and in the bench. But it would be a great lie to say that it dont kick, but not worse than the 460.

It takes some shoot praticing, and then its ok.
I've shot a lot with a Sako TRG-S to, chambered for 338 Lapua (no brake), and that rifle transfers recoil wonderfully without any surprises.

I love the 338 RUM!! It's deliver a great deal of power downrange, and has a super accuracy with almost everything I feed it with. I havent tried the 300grs MK's yet, but I will soon.
The first season I've used the rifle in hunting was last fall, and I shot 3 mooses, one roedeer, and one beaver with it.

 

[Brent]

You're getting pounded if you hold it loose, plain and simple, not to mention it's likely recoiling inconsistantly. I shoulder mine firm, but not excessively firm, something a call on the looser side.

If you're close to getting whacked in a kneeling or off-hand position, I'd say your holding TOO loose, you really should have less of an issue in those positions. Relaxing your upper body will only make this much worse and the gap between your eye and scope will close rapidly instead of moving with the rifle and maintaining most of the space between them.

I'm sure 460 WBY would tell you what would happen touching off a round in his boomer holding it loose and relaxed.

I squated down to shoot my 416 WBY over a chrono a few times here at the house. I had just got the trigger re-worked and after the third shot I was getting ready to touch another one off it went off just a skosh before I was prepared! I almost went back on my *** and lost hold of the rifle as it went over me. With 60 some foot pounds of recoil in that 11 lb. rifle, the only difference was a loose hold at the moment the trigger broke. I could probably duplicate that on vidio for you but don't want to!

 

[dakor]

Brent I would like to see that

I tried to shoot from the hip one time at some clays with my 12 gauge it works good with trap loads then I tried a 3inch BB Goose load and the gun ended up doing cart wheels be hind me

I was some what smart I guess because I only put the one shell in it. Like I said I probably need more practice off hand wich I was planning on doing anyway. Now I shot a 375 H&H yesterday with 270 gr handloads in a 10lbs gun. The gun has recoil but it didnt feel like a sharp kick like a typical magnum. Is this pretty close to what a 338 Ultra would feel like in a 11 lbs rifle with 225? I suppose it is going to have a sharp kick because of the 30 degree shoulder? What would be the Minimum Eye relief you would go with?

 

[460wby]

I've shot a couple of rounds with the 375H&H, and I think the 338 RUM has a faster, snappier recoil than the 375.
And I would prefer to have a scope with not much less than 4" of eyerelief, and fix it so far forward that you have to push the rifle hard into your shoulder to have a clear view trough the scope. Then your shoulder has to break before you get the kiss.
(I think Leupolds scopes are fine. They make a clean cut in your forehead, so the doctor has no problem sewing it together again!)

 

[dakor]

I never have been cut or wore a Magnum Eye brow just a little nudge every once and a while

I am sure I will get *%$! for this but I really dont like the Leupold scopes I have had some trouble with some of them I have owned and I have had a few of them. I have been looking at the Bushnell 3200 Elite 5-15 with the firefly looks pretty sweet and has 4.3 inches of Eye Relief I might have to try one out. As for breaking my shoulder I think a 416 with a 400gr bullet would do that

 

[460wby]

The 338 RUM will defenitly not breake your shoulder, Dakor.
I have a couple of Leupolds myself but have never had any problems with it, and I like the long eyerelief on them. I specially like the VXIII 1,5-5x20 on kicking big-game rifles. It's so compact and light.
Good luck on your choice, dakor!

 

[kidcoltoutlaw]

recoil is just a matter of mind over matter if you don't have a mine it don't matter.i had a hart break put on mine now even a wimp could shoot it,thanks,keith

 

[Brent]

It is mind over matter. Even with a brake on it the urge to flinch is still there and you must learn to resist it. Some people swear the sudden noise is even worse to them, and without ear plugs that is probably a guaranteed fact.

 

[dakor]

I think of it this way and I am sure I will hear about it but if you need a Muzzle break on a hunting rifle the gun is to big for you. You can either put up with a certain amount of recoil or you cant if you cant the gun is to big. Now for someone that wants to sit on the bench and shoots alot of rounds I can understand but if you need it on your carry rifle it is to big. I have been thinking about what to make and after firing a 375 H&H I think I will build one of those instead and it will kill anything that I would use it for and the recoil I can handle and with a 28 inch pipe on it that should put me right there with a 338 Ultra mag with less powder and bigger hole going in and out. What do you guys think? Anyone have a 375 with a long pipe on it? What kinda of velocity are you getting?

 

[winmagman]

dakor
You said you only have a problem with the scope kisses when you crank the power up. Have you given any thought to some of the european scopes with a constant eye relief? Might keep your cartridge options a little more open.
Chris

 

[DwRuger]

I just baught a 338 win mag savage recently. It has an adjustable muzzle brake. I'm a 150lbs, with the muzzle brake opened I could shoot the gun all day, with it closed and a jacket on I could shoot it a few times before it got to me. this gun weighed (gun it self) 7 1/2lbs of course I added a scope and bi-bod. The scope I instald was a sightron 6x24x40 even with it on 24 brake closed it didn't hit my nose. good luck on what u choose.

 

[dakor]

I did find out why I was getting kissed in the forehead a little bit the scope was not level so I must have been canting the gun slightly and didnt even notice it. I found that out by putting a scope level on it and it was off a little bit. So I fixed it and now it is not a problem.

As for eye relief changing that is why I sold my 6x18x40 Leupold they very so much between 6x and 18x I am still looking at scopes.

[ 05-18-2004: Message edited by: dakor ]