Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
Not to start any wars but which cartridge has more HP, velocity, etc..etc.
338 Edge VS 338 Lapua Improved
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jmden
Well-Known Member
338 Lap Imp is built on a larger, stronger case that the EDGE. I own both and get about 150 fps more out of the Lap Imp, which is fairly common. For most long range shooting, the EDGE will be more economical and have plenty of oomph. Right now the issue is getting brass for the EDGE as Remington is working overtime just to make enough ammo and all their 300 RUM brass is going towards loaded ammo...
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. I have a 300RUM already shooting the 230 bergers. I think if I get another I might look hard at the 338 lapua improved. Really what I'm shooting now is big enough for all north American hunting but it would also be nice to have something in the 338 class as well. I like the 338 or 375/408 design but its not something that I could take out and shoot a lot. It would burn out the barrel and the cost is exponentially higher on this type of round. So for me I think the 338 size gun will be my largest caliber. I've thought about the 338-378 but I think the 338 improved is a better option and it just might be cheaper with better brass.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
There are many options for you if you want a 338.
The 338 Edge and the 338 Lapua are very close in performance. the Edge has the benefit of using a standard Magnum bolt face and will work In your 300 Rum with just a barrel change.
The Lapua needs gunsmith time to make it work in a 300 rum built action. the Lapua case is definitely stronger and can be loaded harder.
If you are considering an "Improved" case the Lapua is a good one. there is also a 338 edge Improved that would be a contender for the 338 Lapua improved with the exception of brass quality
and the increase in gun smithing cost to build the Lapua.
I have also had great luck and performance with the 338 RUM. there is also an AI version that will step it up.
Lots to think about before committing.
J E CUSTOM
The 338 Edge and the 338 Lapua are very close in performance. the Edge has the benefit of using a standard Magnum bolt face and will work In your 300 Rum with just a barrel change.
The Lapua needs gunsmith time to make it work in a 300 rum built action. the Lapua case is definitely stronger and can be loaded harder.
If you are considering an "Improved" case the Lapua is a good one. there is also a 338 edge Improved that would be a contender for the 338 Lapua improved with the exception of brass quality
and the increase in gun smithing cost to build the Lapua.
I have also had great luck and performance with the 338 RUM. there is also an AI version that will step it up.
Lots to think about before committing.
J E CUSTOM
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
I was just one the 338 edge web site and it looks like they have a 338 terminator which is the 338 Lapua improved +P version. That sounds interesting. Before I make another purchase I also thought about getting some more work done on my 300 RUM. I've been loading those 230 out long so I can only single feed. I did shoot some at mag length this last week with a mild charge and it was down about 130fps difference. It showed some accuracy without having them seated out so long. So I might try a powder increase and see what I get. Too many guns to think about for a working man with not the biggest bank role.
Just need to work more over time.
Just need to work more over time.one benefit of the Lapua Imp over the Edge is the ability to shoot std Lapua ammo through it in a pinch. god forbid if you go on hunting trip and somehow either your ammo doesn't show up (airlines never loose bags right) or you have other ammo problems. most descent gun shops will have 338 Lapua ammo (or you could even overnight some from someplace like midway). it won't be cheap, but better than not being able to hunt.
I would avoid the 338-378. The brass is pretty weak compared to even Remington 300RUM brass and it's 4.00/each. The Lapua Imp is the best bet for good brass and high velocities. The Edge with R-33 will come close to a Lapua Imp for velocity but not with H-1000. I get 2990fps in my Edge with R-33 and 300gr SMK's. The last 100yd group I shot was in the .1's.
Jokostel
Well-Known Member
That's why you mail some ammo to your guide or friend FIRST and bring secondaries.... never ever ever trust the situation at hand.
Running an improved is a good idea.... but planning intelligently wins hands down.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Recently played with my 100g Retumbo, 300 EH, Fed 215M load in this 338 AX. It had been about .018 off the lands. Advanced another .005 to what, as best I can measure, is -.012 or so and have retained great accuracy and am now running an average MV of 3006 fps (up from 2983fps) with no appreciable pressure sign increase and single digit ES (9) so far. 6017 ft. lbs. at the muzzle in this Kirby built 338 AX and usually in the .2s, sometimes .3s and sometimes .1s when the driver is doing what he's supposed to and conditions are good at my zero range of 208 yds. Going up for a second bear soon.
I just started testing RL 33 with a standard edge, up to 106.5 grns in a new barrel, no sign of pressure, I'm getting 3005 fps ave with 300 grn bergers, .03 @ 100 yard. I'll be testing these loads with HBN soon.
My first 60 shots were with H1000, went up to 92.5 grns, and top speed was 2808 fps and flat primers.
I'm hoping to hear from others who have tested RL33.
Thanx,
Tom
My first 60 shots were with H1000, went up to 92.5 grns, and top speed was 2808 fps and flat primers.
I'm hoping to hear from others who have tested RL33.
Thanx,
Tom
Impressive velocity. Did you really mean .03" groups at 100 yards? I would preserve a barrel like that as long as possible. I suspect you meant 0.3". Which is still very good.
captacademy
Well-Known Member
How's the consistency of the RL33 over different temps?
jmden
Well-Known Member
Have seen a some folks talking about 1.5fps per degree or so MV change with 1F change and RL 33. There's been enough such talk that I'm pretty sure I don't want to deal with it. Retumbo has be very temp stable with me and to me, in long range hunting, that is much more important than an extra few feet per second. I hardly had any gain, if any at all, when I tried RL 33 (over what I was getting with Retumbo) in a 338 Lap Imp.
In a 28" Benchmark barreled EDGE, it was the same story. 100g RL 33 produced 2828fps. More didn't make any difference. I'm close enough with Retumbo or H1000 to that to not be worth fiddling with the temp sensitivity issue.
Now some have apparently reported good temp insensitivity with RL 33, but there are enough that seem to have the opposite experience that I don't trust it for much temp swing and long range consistency when hunting during any kind of temp swing. It doesn't take much change in velocity to change your zero and then your off to the races chasing a zero. If you don't have a consistent zero in this game (especially hunting), you don't have much at all as that barrel whips around to release the bullet at a slightly different timing (and consequent zero change). So, to the folks that are getting temp MV changes, how are you accounting for this? In theory, it's simple to theoretically adjust for velocity changes solely based on MV in regards to vertical POI, but a ballistic program, to my knowledge, cannot account for how barrel whip, might throw that bullet to the side or down or whatever due to the bullet exiting at a slightly different timing in the barrel whip sequence due to MV changes secondary to temp changes. Maybe some of you dealing with this can report back to us. Me, at this point in time, I would not take this powder hunting. But I've been proven wrong before.
In a 28" Benchmark barreled EDGE, it was the same story. 100g RL 33 produced 2828fps. More didn't make any difference. I'm close enough with Retumbo or H1000 to that to not be worth fiddling with the temp sensitivity issue.
Now some have apparently reported good temp insensitivity with RL 33, but there are enough that seem to have the opposite experience that I don't trust it for much temp swing and long range consistency when hunting during any kind of temp swing. It doesn't take much change in velocity to change your zero and then your off to the races chasing a zero. If you don't have a consistent zero in this game (especially hunting), you don't have much at all as that barrel whips around to release the bullet at a slightly different timing (and consequent zero change). So, to the folks that are getting temp MV changes, how are you accounting for this? In theory, it's simple to theoretically adjust for velocity changes solely based on MV in regards to vertical POI, but a ballistic program, to my knowledge, cannot account for how barrel whip, might throw that bullet to the side or down or whatever due to the bullet exiting at a slightly different timing in the barrel whip sequence due to MV changes secondary to temp changes. Maybe some of you dealing with this can report back to us. Me, at this point in time, I would not take this powder hunting. But I've been proven wrong before.
Oops, thanks for the correction 0.3 is what I meant. Yah, so far looks promising.
As for temperature stability I've only been out twice, 20 rounds each time, both days were in the high 50s low 60s. I'll be heading out for moose in a couple of weeks, temps should be in the 30s 40s - I hope that's all the colder it gets! From what I've been reading RL33 sounds good from as low as 20 and up to the 80s. The Conclusion factor is still out on RL33, I'm hoping to hear more results from you guys!
Tom
