308win load help.

[MudRunner2005]

All the time, every group is that size?

Once in a while?

Seldom?

Or is that the smallest group shot?

The smallest group it has shot was less than .250" C-to-C. Saying it shoots an exact .2500" group 100% of the time would be absurd...There will always be variance. Among the various loads I have established for it, it averages .25x-.35x" groups consistently with me shooting it...But I have gotten more than one .25x" group (or better) with majority of my loads, which is why I say it is a 1/4" gun. The only powder i use in my .308 Win is Varget. I do not use a lead-sled, I shoot off of sandbags...There is more room for human-error when using bags, instead of just strapping it in the sled, and pulling the trigger.

On seldom occasion it shoots a bad group from human-error...I think we can agree on that happening from time-to-time.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Interesting. I'm sending Berger VLD hunters way over all of your loads and getting consistent sub moa at 200 yards, no pressure issues , no primer issues, haven't chrono'd yet but I have to assume at least 2800 fps. Will know Saturday.... I love Varget. Lapua brass, Fed 210 primers, Whidden custom machined dies.

 

[Str8shooterTX]

For me Berger classic hunters and Hornady A-Max with IMR 4064 at 45.2gr or varget from 45.0-45.4gr varget with or without suppressor. seated to a COAL of 2.85 works beautiful.

 

[SidecarFlip]

For me Berger classic hunters and Hornady A-Max with IMR 4064 at 45.2gr or varget from 45.0-45.4gr varget with or without suppressor. seated to a COAL of 2.85 works beautiful.

I would presume thats tip to base... I use the ogive measurement with a 0.400 gage on my caliper...

Here, a supressor gets you 10 years of 3 hots and a cot.............

 

[Bart B]

MudRunner says:

Among the various loads I have established for it, it averages .25x-.35x" groups consistently.

If it sometimes averages .35X", to me it's probably a .400" gun or bigger; at least one group is larger than the average and I need to count them as well. Don't you count on all your shots doing well when you're not group shooting?

I think one should state what a rifle and its ammo can be counted on to do all the time. Simple reasoning tells me that a few of the groups will be very small; in the .100 range once in a while.

 

[Str8shooterTX]

I would presume that's tip to base... I use the ogive measurement with a 0.400 gauge on my caliper...

Here, a suppressor gets you 10 years of 3 hots and a cot.............

Correct. I haven't found the need to do CBTO after first measuring. Now the difference in bullets is negligible so I simply weigh to sort them and seat all at 2.85COAL. Berger and Hornady are very consistent in what I have found.
To bad about the suppressor laws in Mich. Sucks to be in commie country. Except I used to live and hunt all over the Midwest. Then again all the Big three car makers were still huge in Detroit at that time also. Great hunting and fishing. shi&%y economy.

 

[BARNDOG]

MudRunner says: If it sometimes averages .35X", to me it's probably a .400" gun or bigger; at least one group is larger than the average and I need to count them as well. Don't you count on all your shots doing well when you're not group shooting?

I think one should state what a rifle and its ammo can be counted on to do all the time. Simple reasoning tells me that a few of the groups will be very small; in the .100 range once in a while.

Bart, you obviously need to pony up on you shooting equipment and shoot more.
Either that or stop drinking your own bath water.

Try getting out more.

 

[BARNDOG]

MudRunner says: If it sometimes averages .35X", to me it's probably a .400" gun or bigger; at least one group is larger than the average and I need to count them as well. Don't you count on all your shots doing well when you're not group shooting?

I think one should state what a rifle and its ammo can be counted on to do all the time. Simple reasoning tells me that a few of the groups will be very small; in the .100 range once in a while.

Bart, obviously you need to pony up some more $$ on your equipment and spend more trigger time. What Mudrunner is doing with his equipment is not at all unusual.
Maybe you should drink less of your own bathwater and get out more.

 

[Sargesniper]

I found varget to be overrated in my 308. I have found switching powder all together is more effective than tweeking the charge of the same powder.

I haven't found anything better than Federal Gold medal match factory which supposedly uses 4064. I don't like the Sierras for hunting so I plan on duplicating powder charge and base to ogive length with an Amax. 42.8 is supposedly the charge for 168s

I read somewhere that Fed.GMM was loaded with R-15 now. They supposedly switched from 4064. Either one will give excellent groups.

A .308 will shoot many powders with excellent accuracy; Win. 748, H-4895, IMR 4320, IMR 4895, R-15, IMR 8208xbr, N-550, and a few more that I know of.

Don't get hung up on one powder. Mine do not like Varget but will shoot well with the others mentioned.

Primers do make a difference with most powders I have tried. The Russian primers do well but are scarce now.

A very good 168 gr. hunting bullet can be found using the Berger HUNTING bullet. They are just as accurate as the TARGET bullet also. Very good killing and humane as well.

If a .308 won't shoot one of the listed powders then something is very wrong in the rifle or the reloading.

 

[wackinandstackin243]

I couldn't tell any difference in group size or my zero at 100 yds but somewhere along the line Federal GMM 168 lost some velocity. I Used to get a bit over 2700 and now am below 2650. It doesn't seem like much, but the drop increased more than I would like.

I have some reloader 15 (44 gr) and 4064 (42.8) loaded, it's just a matter of time to get them through a chronograph and see what the velocity is. Either load has room for an increase

 

[SidecarFlip]

Clean the tube lately? Sounds like it's copper fouled.

 

[Sargesniper]

I couldn't tell any difference in group size or my zero at 100 yds but somewhere along the line Federal GMM 168 lost some velocity. I Used to get a bit over 2700 and now am below 2650. It doesn't seem like much, but the drop increased more than I would like.

I have some reloader 15 (44 gr) and 4064 (42.8) loaded, it's just a matter of time to get them through a chronograph and see what the velocity is. Either load has room for an increase

I load 42.2 gr. with both of them. Very accurate.

IMR 8208xbr and Win. 748 are stellar also. N-550 is very good but the price does not justify using it over any of the others I have mentioned.

 

[Bart B]

Bart, obviously you need to pony up some more $$ on your equipment and spend more trigger time.

Why?

Exactly, what do you think is wrong with my reasoning?

What Mudrunner is doing with his equipment is not at all unusual.

i know that.

 

[GTN]

I shoot 168gr Berger Hybrid hunting with 44gr of Varget and CCI BR2's and recently developed a load with RL-15 and 168 Amax's, haven't settled on charge yet, Lapua brass. Both the Berger and the Amax shoot under 1/2 MOA with specified loads. I have only shot the Amax loads a couple times but the Bergers have been sub 1/2 MOA consistently for a couple hundred rounds. I shoot Varget with the Bergers because it was a little more accurate than the RL-15. This is all being shot out of a 22" Proof barrel with suppressor.

I was working a load with 168gr Hunting VLD's and run out of mag room so I went to the Hybrid and it has a touch higher BC anyway. With the VLD's RL-15 was a touch more accurate than Varget.

I guess my point is that different powder works better with different bullets in different guns.

Like others have said I would also change my primer to a Fed 210/210M or CCI BR-2 or CCI-200. I have a friend that is shooting Fed 215's out of his 308 and swears it doesn't like any other primer.