Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
I was wondering the same thing
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.308 Bullet Weight effects past 1,000 Yds
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MontanaMarine
Well-Known Member
It would be insightful to test my loads, in my rifle, with pressure testing equipment.
We all know each rifle is an entitiy unto itself. Mine is a Rem factory varmint barrel. Typical long throat. Add in moly, roomy Win brass, and a bullet seated out long, but still off the lands.
I've been shooting this load for a few years now, since RL17 came on the market. Put a few thousand of them through the rifle without any typical pressure signs. Brass has been reloaded probably 20+ times and still in fine shape.
Before RL17, I loaded with RL15. Using RL15 and the moly'd 208 AMax, velocity topped out at about 2500 fps before I would begin to see some slight ejector swipe.
I've found RL17 is a game-changer in the 308, with heavies. Of course if one has a tight chamber, short throat, heavy brass, short oal, and nekkid bullets, the results will no doubt be different.
From what I gather, the F/TR competitiors have been going to the heavies of late, with their 30-32 " barrels they are seeing velocities over 2700 fps.
The heaviest bullet I've loaded in the 308 is the Hornady 225gr BTHP. It too shoots very well from my Rem barrel.
The powders and bullets we have today have extended the performance/range of most all the common chamberings. The 308 is no exception, but most folks prefer a bigger case. I enjoy the challenge of the 308 Win.
We all know each rifle is an entitiy unto itself. Mine is a Rem factory varmint barrel. Typical long throat. Add in moly, roomy Win brass, and a bullet seated out long, but still off the lands.
I've been shooting this load for a few years now, since RL17 came on the market. Put a few thousand of them through the rifle without any typical pressure signs. Brass has been reloaded probably 20+ times and still in fine shape.
Before RL17, I loaded with RL15. Using RL15 and the moly'd 208 AMax, velocity topped out at about 2500 fps before I would begin to see some slight ejector swipe.
I've found RL17 is a game-changer in the 308, with heavies. Of course if one has a tight chamber, short throat, heavy brass, short oal, and nekkid bullets, the results will no doubt be different.
From what I gather, the F/TR competitiors have been going to the heavies of late, with their 30-32 " barrels they are seeing velocities over 2700 fps.
The heaviest bullet I've loaded in the 308 is the Hornady 225gr BTHP. It too shoots very well from my Rem barrel.
The powders and bullets we have today have extended the performance/range of most all the common chamberings. The 308 is no exception, but most folks prefer a bigger case. I enjoy the challenge of the 308 Win.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Can you comment on the stability of the berger 215's out of a 1:12?
MontanaMarine
Well-Known Member
Well, I looked back at my old thread on the 215s. I only had 20 bullets to play with and didn't get past the 100 yard distance.
The 215s were stable at 100 yards in a 20.5" barrel, 1/12, 2500 fps. And also in the 26" bbl, 1/12, 2600 fps.
This was at 4500' el.
JBM calculator tells me the bullet is at the bottom of 'marginal' stability. It may have wobbled off in denser atmosphere. I can't give you any long range feedback on the 215 Berger from the 1/12 twist 308.
I did shoot the 225gr Hornady BTHP out to 1200 yards with good stability and accuracy. That was at 2500 fps, from the same 1/12 bbl.
Bottom line, I think 1/12 is really pushing it with the 210gr+ stuff at 308 speeds, but I've gotten away with it in local atmo 4500', and down to 2900' up in Glasgow MT country.
I'd feel a lot better with a 1/10 twist barrel, and that's the route I'll go if I can ever wear out these darn factory pipes.....smile.
The 215s were stable at 100 yards in a 20.5" barrel, 1/12, 2500 fps. And also in the 26" bbl, 1/12, 2600 fps.
This was at 4500' el.
JBM calculator tells me the bullet is at the bottom of 'marginal' stability. It may have wobbled off in denser atmosphere. I can't give you any long range feedback on the 215 Berger from the 1/12 twist 308.
I did shoot the 225gr Hornady BTHP out to 1200 yards with good stability and accuracy. That was at 2500 fps, from the same 1/12 bbl.
Bottom line, I think 1/12 is really pushing it with the 210gr+ stuff at 308 speeds, but I've gotten away with it in local atmo 4500', and down to 2900' up in Glasgow MT country.
I'd feel a lot better with a 1/10 twist barrel, and that's the route I'll go if I can ever wear out these darn factory pipes.....smile.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
With the 225gn hornady's do you think you could make consistant cold bore shots at 1000+ yds from day to day or month to month?
It's my opinion and experience that any well built rifle barrel fit properly to a receiver will shoot just as accurate starting with the first one from a cold barrel to the last of a 30 shot string with shots fired every 30 seconds. At most, the last 25 may center at the longer ranges 1/4 to 1/3 MOA above the first 5. But that's due to powder fouling causing higher muzzle velocities, not barrel temperatures.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
I dont disagree with you on that Bart. Its just im my experience the 308 is very easily affected by environental conditions at ranges approching 1000 yds. I was curious if the 225gn pills are moving fast enough that they provide the consistency to get a first round hit at extended ranges, without having to walk them in.
MontanaMarine
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that I am good enough to make consistent cold-bore hits at 1K+ with the 308 launching 225s or any other bullet, day after day, month after month.
Few people could back up that claim, regardless of their rifles chambering or load.
For conversation, here is a pic of a target I shot with 208s, at 2480 fps via RL15. Range was 1120 yards. I needed two shots to get on steel that day, as I recall. After that I put six consecutive hits with .722 moa precision. The steel target is 15" wide by 25" tall.
Point being, the 308 has the ballistics to get there with accuracy, especially with a bullet with a BC in the .6's.
Reading and adjusting for conditions is the art of LR, and the 308 makes it a challenge that I enjoy.
Few people could back up that claim, regardless of their rifles chambering or load.
For conversation, here is a pic of a target I shot with 208s, at 2480 fps via RL15. Range was 1120 yards. I needed two shots to get on steel that day, as I recall. After that I put six consecutive hits with .722 moa precision. The steel target is 15" wide by 25" tall.
Point being, the 308 has the ballistics to get there with accuracy, especially with a bullet with a BC in the .6's.
Reading and adjusting for conditions is the art of LR, and the 308 makes it a challenge that I enjoy.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Nice shooting! And i like your rifle by the way. I think 1000 yd cold bore shots are plenty do-able but i think its much easier to do with a heavy bullet moving much faster than the 308 is capable of. The weather conditions affect the 308's bullet to much to be a great 1k gun. A 1mph error in wind or a slightly temp affected powder unaccounted for is enough to miss a 1moa target. Especially approaching 1500yds, which is what this thread was about before i inadvertently hi-jacked it. My apologies.
MontanaMarine
Well-Known Member
I'd never argue against added velocity making it easier to beat conditions.
I suppose it all depends on one's purpose. I'd never promote the 308 Win for 1000 yard hunting.
At the same time, I'm quite confident I could make life difficult for someone at 1500 yards with my 308 and handloads, if things should ever come to that.
I suppose it all depends on one's purpose. I'd never promote the 308 Win for 1000 yard hunting.
At the same time, I'm quite confident I could make life difficult for someone at 1500 yards with my 308 and handloads, if things should ever come to that.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
I would agree with that. You obviously have much experience with the 308 and i respect that. I would be eager to hear about your experiments with the 215 berger hybrid. That bullet and Re 17 could be very useful to me. I look forward to a write up
minute of elk
Well-Known Member
Following Shane's lead I put together a 208 amax/R17 load for my 308 tikka that will put cold bore hits on steel out to 1k. I haven't shot it much past 1k, but based on how easy it is to get a 208 amax on steel at 1k, I'd be confident shooting at man-sized targets at 1500 wih handloads. Of course, the usual excuse applies- my ability to accurately read the atmospherics will be the variable, not the load.
I have a speedie tag for your back yard, Shane. If you have a couple man-sized targets you'd be willing to put out at 1500, I'd be happy to lob some 208's in their general direction...
I have a speedie tag for your back yard, Shane. If you have a couple man-sized targets you'd be willing to put out at 1500, I'd be happy to lob some 208's in their general direction...
Bushman, all bullets are effected by the atmosphere they go through and the closer they are to the target, the more they are effected 'cause they're slowing down all the time they're in flight. The problem is knowing what the conditions are throughout the bullet's flight to the target. How do you know what the wind is for each foot above your line of sight to the target and each 50 yards of range to the target your bullet's gonna go through?
The closer the bullet is to the target, the more it drops per yard of range and the more it moves sideways for a given cross wind. If the bullet goes through wind for only the first 200 yards for an 800 yard target, it'll keep heading the direction it was headed at the end of that first 200 yards.
If you've got a good zero for your load at different range increments for different atmospheric conditions, pick the one that's closest to your shot at hand, make a few small sight adjustments if needed, cross your fingers then shoot.
All of which adds up to a very difficult task of estimating the sight settings for a distant target based on the conditions and expecting the bullet to strike within 1/2 MOA of the point of aim.
The closer the bullet is to the target, the more it drops per yard of range and the more it moves sideways for a given cross wind. If the bullet goes through wind for only the first 200 yards for an 800 yard target, it'll keep heading the direction it was headed at the end of that first 200 yards.
If you've got a good zero for your load at different range increments for different atmospheric conditions, pick the one that's closest to your shot at hand, make a few small sight adjustments if needed, cross your fingers then shoot.
All of which adds up to a very difficult task of estimating the sight settings for a distant target based on the conditions and expecting the bullet to strike within 1/2 MOA of the point of aim.
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
I most certainly agree to everything you stated Bart.
