300 WSM loose primer pockets - need some help please

[screamrider]

My favorite primer for the WSM is the Fed 210M. I'll use CCI 200 if I have to May BR2s and BR4s would serve my uses better if I can't get Federal Match.

WLR/WMR are fine but like I said, seem to show "loose" before the others. I do use them on one load specifically because they are "softer" than the CCI.

I noticed almost no difference in velocity between regular and magnum primers in the WSM. The powder column is short enough that the standard primer makes plenty of ignition.

I think and for lack of better words, the magnum primer excites the powder too much. Like pinging in an engine. You want one smooth flame path.

I hear what you're saying, thanks. I will definitely try both since I still have 100 of each (WLR and WLRM).

I can already tell this is going to be an addicting hobby, all I want to do is load more rounds!!

 

[Bill Johnson]

I think and for lack of better words, the magnum primer excites the powder too much. Like pinging in an engine. You want one smooth flame path.

That's an interesting observation and one that I agree with.

Although a seemingly unrelated field of reloading, in black powder cartridge loads, it was initially promulgated by some writers that magnum primers were best for BPCR loads. Later, this wisdom was questioned and it's been found that milder primers enhanced accuracy. My personal theory is that the magnum primers disrupt the carefully formed powder column. I started out with Federal Gold Medal 215Ms but eventually switched to CCI BR2s for long range 45-70/90 loads.

So that would match your experience and observations.

 

[screamrider]

So my new norma 300 wsm brass arrived yesterday. I prepped it last night and just used my RCBS universal hand primer to prime 20 cases with WLR primers.

I was clearly at one extreme with my federal brass/WLRM primers, when they seated with almost no resistance on the hand priming tool.

This time around, with the new (unfired) norma brass and WLR primers, it took considerable force to seat the primers. After the first five I realized I wasn't even seating them all the way and had to run them through the tool again.

Primary question, how do you know when to stop squeezing the hand primer for ideal seating depth? To get the primers below the case I had to squeeze very hard.

Also, my primers appear somewhat crushed in that a rim has developed around the circumference (link to pic attached). On closer inspection I think that rim may be the primer pocket, but I can't tell. The primer looks a little flat as well.

Appreciate any help. It seems like I may have applied too much force, but otherwise the primers were protruding out too far.

https://picasaweb.google.com/108839...&authkey=Gv1sRgCLymsNnB3ZD0BA&feat=directlink

 

[screamrider]

So my new norma 300 wsm brass arrived yesterday. I prepped it last night and just used my RCBS universal hand primer to prime 20 cases with WLR primers.

I was clearly at one extreme with my federal brass/WLRM primers, when they seated with almost no resistance on the hand priming tool.

This time around, with the new (unfired) norma brass and WLR primers, it took considerable force to seat the primers. After the first five I realized I wasn't even seating them all the way and had to run them through the tool again.

Primary question, how do you know when to stop squeezing the hand primer for ideal seating depth? To get the primers below the case I had to squeeze very hard.

Also, my primers appear somewhat crushed in that a rim has developed around the circumference (link to pic attached). On closer inspection I think that rim may be the primer pocket, but I can't tell. The primer looks a little flat as well.

Appreciate any help. It seems like I may have applied too much force, but otherwise the primers were protruding out too far.

https://picasaweb.google.com/108839...&authkey=Gv1sRgCLymsNnB3ZD0BA&feat=directlink

Anyone have any advice on this one? I was going to finish loading these rounds tomorrow but want to wait for some experienced opinions to let me know if my primer situation is ok?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Did you use a uniforming tool on the primer pockets?

If the primer is not seated fully you will sometimes get a soft strike which can result in delayed firing or firing on a second strike.

There is a way with the RCBS universal priming tool (that's what I use) to adjust the seating depth. RTM. Mine is set for about .002 depth.

Yes the Norma brass will be much harder to seat the primers. Remember to back off the load and work your way back up.

 

[screamrider]

Did you use a uniforming tool on the primer pockets?

If the primer is not seated fully you will sometimes get a soft strike which can result in delayed firing or firing on a second strike.

There is a way with the RCBS universal priming tool (that's what I use) to adjust the seating depth. RTM. Mine is set for about .002 depth.

Yes the Norma brass will be much harder to seat the primers. Remember to back off the load and work your way back up.

No uniforming tool, I don't have one yet and with the new brass I wasn't aware I needed to use one. That will be my next purchase for sure!

I think I now have them seated fully. If I hold a straight edge across the case it doesn't
"high side" on the primer, so I believe they're below being flush. I'll check with my caliper depth gauge to get exact measurements. I don't think I need to adjust the tool, but I'm just concerned I'm using too much force.

With my federal brass I started at 60.0 grains and went up to 64.5. My best group by far was 63.5.

With the new brass and same powder (H4350), should I go all the way back to min charge?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Flush is fine.

IIWM: I'd back down a bit. OBT says you should be looking at a speed around 2800fps. Something in the 60.5 range.

My calcs say your federal load was running over 2900fps at 62k PSI. This will still hurt the Nosler brass.

Read up on reading ejector marks and primers. With Nosler brass, ejector marks start showing up at 56k PSI.

 

[screamrider]

Flush is fine.

IIWM: I'd back down a bit. OBT says you should be looking at a speed around 2800fps. Something in the 60.5 range.

My calcs say your federal load was running over 2900fps at 62k PSI. This will still hurt the Nosler brass.

Read up on reading ejector marks and primers. With Nosler brass, ejector marks start showing up at 56k PSI.

I just went through all my primers and seated them to exactly 0.002. I had to turn each one a couple times and give s squeeze, but now they appear good to go.

My factory federal loads were running 3044 fps and showed both flat primers and ejector marks.

My first batch of reloads gave me the following 2 groups (I tried from 60.0 to 64.5)

61.5: 0.53 inch group at 2801 fps
63.5: 0.29 inch group at 2886 fps

By "hurting" the norma brass, are you just talking shortening the life (number of reloads), or more serious damage?

I'll study up some more on reading the primer signs for sure. Can you also elaborate, or point me in the right direction reference OBT. Other than a quick google search just now I'm not really familiar with this concept?

Really appreciate your help.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I just went through all my primers and seated them to exactly 0.002. I had to turn each one a couple times and give s squeeze, but now they appear good to go.

My factory federal loads were running 3044 fps and showed both flat primers and ejector marks.

My first batch of reloads gave me the following 2 groups (I tried from 60.0 to 64.5)

61.5: 0.53 inch group at 2801 fps
63.5: 0.29 inch group at 2886 fps

By "hurting" the norma brass, are you just talking shortening the life (number of reloads), or more serious damage?

I'll study up some more on reading the primer signs for sure. Can you also elaborate, or point me in the right direction reference OBT. Other than a quick google search just now I'm not really familiar with this concept?

Really appreciate your help.

If you got a .29 with the Nosler brass that's the load. OBT gets you a range but not perfect. ~%3 to prediction is pretty close.

If you know how to find ejector marks your good. If that 63.5 load is Nosler brass without ejector marks, your good.

By hurting the brass, I mean shortening usable life. Primer pockets mostly.

 

[screamrider]

If you got a .29 with the Nosler brass that's the load. OBT gets you a range but not perfect. ~%3 to prediction is pretty close.

If you know how to find ejector marks your good. If that 63.5 load is Nosler brass without ejector marks, your good.

By hurting the brass, I mean shortening usable life. Primer pockets mostly.

Sorry, I meant to say that those posted loads and groups were with the once fired federal brass with the loose primer pockets.


So far I have just sized and primed the new unfired Norma brass. I'm going to load the first 20 rounds tomorrow with this new brass.


From what I understand the data from my federal loads means nothing with the Norma brass so I should just go back to min load and work my way back up?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Sorry, I meant to say that those posted loads and groups were with the once fired federal brass with the loose primer pockets.


So far I have just sized and primed the new unfired Norma brass. I'm going to load the first 20 rounds tomorrow with this new brass.


From what I understand the data from my federal loads means nothing with the Norma brass so I should just go back to min load and work my way back up?

Find the same velocity and it should be the same accuracy. Or close enough for small adjustments to get you there.

 

[screamrider]

Find the same velocity and it should be the same accuracy. Or close enough for small adjustments to get you there.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

 

[screamrider]

Find the same velocity and it should be the same accuracy. Or close enough for small adjustments to get you there.

Wow, your advice was spot on!

I just got back from the range with the first firings of my new norma brass.

I went in half grain increments from 61.0 to 63.5 and found some interesting and encouraging results.

1. The norma brass gave the same velocities as the federal brass, but with half a grain less charge. So my 63.0 norma load was the same velocity as my 63.5 grain federal load (2886 fps). Possibly due to thicker brass with the norma and less case volume, therefore more pressure?

2. The best load from my norma brass occurred at the exact same velocity as the best load from my federal brass (2886 fps). Today it was 0.732 at 200 yards, so approx 0.366 MOA. The federal at the same velocity was 0.299 at 100 yards last week. So looks like that is the velocity I'm after.

3. Today I loaded all rounds with WLR instead of WLRM. Overall my groups were MUCH tighter with the WLR primers. Every group (61.0, 61.5, 62.0, 62.5, 63.0) was under 0.75 MOA. It was only my last group at 63.5 grains running 2911 fps that opened up to 1.35 MOA.

Bottom line, I really appreciate your help, and I'm now totally hooked on reloading!

 

[just country]

Well, after safely shooting my first batch of reloads I'm hoping folks can help me out with a little problem I encountered.

Full disclaimer, this was my very first batch of reloads and I'm a total newb. I did a ton of research and reading before loading, so first I'll lay out exactly what I did:

Rifle: Browning X-bolt stainless stalker, 300 WSM
Cases: Once fired federal premium factory ammunition, nickel plated
Primers: Winchester WLRM
Powder: H4350
Bullet: 180 grain TTSX

1. I cleaned the cases in tumbler
2. I lubed the cases with Hornady one shot
3. I resized and deprimed the cases in my Redding press with a Redding deluxe FL die. I set the die so that the shoulder was bumped back 0.002 inches (using Hornady head space gauge).
4. I tested the empty cases and they chambered with no issue.
5. I trimmed the cases to exactly 2.0900 with the LE Wilson micrometer trimmer
6. I chamfered and deburred each case with the LE Wilson hand deburring tool.
7. I cleaned the cases in the tumbler again.
8. I hand primed each case using the RCBS universal hand primer. ****At least half the primers went in with extremely little effort, while the rest had just a bit of resistance.
9. I loaded three cases at each of the following weight: 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5, 62.0, 62.5, 63.0, 63.5, 64.0. I used the RCMS chargemaster combo.
10. I seated the bullets with my Redding deluxe seating die with a 0.050 jump off the lands (using Hornady OAL gauge).
11. OAL was between 2.860 and 2.865 for the 27 cartridges I made.

So, off to the range I went yesterday with my 27 handloads and 5 federal premium factory loads, in 180 grain trophy copper (my rifle shoots these very well).

First 2 rounds at 60.0 were good to go, with expected velocities of 2743 fps. Then on my third 60.0 round as I was sliding the bolt forward I noticed there was NO PRIMER in the case!! I immediately thought back to how easy it was to hand prime and thought that it must have just fallen out. I looked around and sure enough it was sitting on the bench beside my rifle.

I cautiously continued to fire my rounds, but only after tapping the bottom edge of each case on the bench to make sure no other primers were going to fall out. I didn't have another one fall out, but on several of my higher loads (63.5 and 64.0) I noticed carbon residue around the primer itself, telling me that they were not a tight fit and there was some gas leakage.

Bottom line, I got 2 solid groups from my hand loads, the best being 0.30 inches at 100 yards with 63.5 grains.

I am not concerned with the loose primer pockets and have the following questions I'm hoping I can get some input on:

1. When I researched the loose primer pocket problem I read that federal factory brass have unusually large primer pockets, and that Winchester primers (the uncoated brass ones) are unusually small, making my combination a recipe for primers falling out. Any truth to that or others with similar experience?

2. I think that it's possible the federal premium factory rounds are too hot. They were shooting 3044 on my chrono and muzzle velocity is supposed to be 2960. I also think the enlarged primer pockets could be a pressure sign? I've also spotted some case head extrusion marks on the once fired brass, and some slight rim bending on a few cases. Has anyone else found this with federal premium ammo from a 300 WSM? Potential issue with my rifle?

3. Since there was some gas leakage around the primers, would this reduce my handload velocities, or make them erratic? My best load at 63.5 grains measured velocities of 2879, 2886, and 2892. Is this a reasonable velocity distribution?

4. The only primers I can find within 2 hours are the Winchesters. I have WLR and WLRM. I used the WLRM for these loads. I'm thinking about ordering some Norma 300 WSM brass and will stop using the federal I have. Anyone know if the WLRM primers will fit better in the Norma brass? Any other brass recommendations?

That's all for now, I really appreciate any help you can offer!

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it lays out all the pertinent facts.

Hello I am Larry
I have 7wsm. I shoot Winchester,Norma and Federal brass. Some the brass is once fired some not. When using store bought once fired brass ALWAYS FL the brass. I shoot 66.5grs. of 4831sc. ONLY Federal 215 primers. I shoot the new Barnes MRX 145gr 7mm bullet. This particular load is extremely accuracy. .350-.500. At 100yrs. I neck size only to 3 reloads of this brass. After 3 reloadings I remove the brass from my reload data. I then install the new brass. I keep track on the number of reloads I do to the brass I have noticed at the wsm rounds have a tendency to enlarge the primer holes. Sounds like ur problem is the type of primers u r using. I use ONLY Federal primers for reloads. Look into the info on types of primers. U will find that Federal r the top rated primers. T U M