300 weatherby vs 300 remington ultra mag

[Iron Worker]

Im afriade I'll half to say it agian,As mentioned earlier,my 300 RUM with Nosler 180 gold partion kicks ***.The Guy shooten the Weathreby accumark,well he's lucky,his rifle is the exception to the rule about weatherbys.Even with a dirty BBL my Rifle shoots like a laser.Long live 300 RUM.

 

[littletoes]

OK guys, I have taken the time to read each and every post. I would have to say that we have some good experience here to make up some of the answers that we are getting. The deal is, the guys that have the most experience with how guns work, are the long range target shooters/reloaders. They/we usualy play with our loads more, and shoot more, because we can. If you tweak a load enough, you can make it work. But whats the cheapest/best way to do it? Its plain and simple that boat tails don't shoot as accuratly in rifles that have quite a bit of free-bore, or factory throat erosion as I call it. Well at least in my experience. I have several Remington 700's and a beutiful Weatherby Accumark in 300 Weatherby Mag. I also think that the additional cost of the Weatherby, just for the name, and a few slightly custom features may just be slightly overrated. Hate to say it, but its the truth. The Remingtons that I have seen and used are very good weapons. For half the price you can sure get some good work done on your Remington. I will not part with my Weatherby, because it was a gift from my Wife. But if I had known what I was doing at the time, then I just might have gone with the Remington.

KardiacKid-A Weatherby DOES NOT need the "free-bore" that it has. Free-bore is something that the manufactures use to get more velocity(and still keep the lawyers happy), NOT ACCURACY! The truth, plain and simple, sorry, but that is just the way it is. If you don't believe me, ask any true expert. Hell, take a poll of the benchrest shooters out there(the TRUE accuracy experts!!). Ask them about free-bore. You might be sorry, or you just might learn something. The trick is to not close any ideas out. If you want more accuracy from a cartrige, you make the barrel heavier/thicker. If you want more velocity, you make the barrel longer. Ever hear of a 32" barrel? How about longer? They're out there, and they get the full use of the powder that those large casses hold. Why burn powder out the end of your barrel? Keep the gasses inside where they can continue to push that bullet! And a garuntee of 1 1/2" at 100 yards isn't anything. Why does Weatherby do it? SIMPLE! EASY! It sells rifles. But those that know, or are in the "know", understand that most rifles do better. Especialy with handloads. I have a couple of Remingtons that shoot under 1/4 MOA with factory ammo. I've also shot under 1 1/2" at 330 yards with five shots out of my Weatherby (Serious load tweeking!). There is just so much info out there, and the great thing is that most shooters are more than willing to teach, to pass on there sport. Thats how we keep it alive. Take a kid shooting! littletoes out.

 

[Brent]

Len,
I re-read your post, must have been a little unclear to me late that night, as it made perfect sense when I re-read it just now.

Do you think that the spring back in the brass would still be nearly the same after firing if the brass had slight variations in thickness, which could be accounting for some of the case weight variations?

Food for thought though - If the outside dimentions of the cases were all the same at the time of measuring with water, diameter at neck, shoulder, base, headspace, and the OAL, I just figure (assume) the water weight means the internal "space" has to be the same... or it wouldn't hold that volume/weight of water.

KardiacKid,
I disagree with most of your post, so I figured I'd just highlight the opposite stuff.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> The Weatherby uses a Kreiger button rifled barrel which is a good barrel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, I like that part, but they screwed it up by putting it on a WBY action.

Probably why they only guarantee 1.5" groups out of them.

My sons little fetherweight 308 does that with any factory ammo, so does darn near anything else I've ever shot.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> The bottom line is that Wby has a guarantee on accuracy which tells you what you need to know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess a guy can read that two ways....

AJ cleared up the rest quite well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I have read and re-read the headspace issue starting with this site. If the gun shoots well - who cares ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Minimal headspace serves two ends; one is to offer resistance upon primer strike and keep the case from excessively stretching, the other is to better center the case neck in the chamber for accuracy....

Is one more inherantly accurate than the other? Both are equally capable. Prove otherwise.

I've got a '79 Ford F150 4x4, has a 4 bolt Chevy 454 and a Turbo 400 in it though...

In my mind, pulling that Krieger and putting it on your Remington, best of both.

 

[Guest]

KardiacKid, first of all, Krieger barrels are not button rifled they are cut rifled.

Second, Your weatherby does not have one. Unless you ordered one from the custom shop, it has the Krieger Criterion barrel (as AJ300MAG pointed out). In a conversation I had with the guys at Krieger they said that they had a problem with weatherby claiming that they used Krieger barrels. That is why weatherby specifically says "Krieger Criterion" and not just Krieger.

I know a few people have said this, but I have to comment...
1 1/2" Guarantee @ 100 yards? That's like Chevy giving a guarantee on a Corvette - "Minimum Top Speed of 100 MPH"

As far as ammo, there are plenty of companies such as CP Cartridge, Superior Ammo, Safari Arms, etc that will sell ammo with just about any bullet you want and for just about any chambering.

KardiacKid, which model of Weatherby do you have?

 

[Delta Hunter]

I have a Sako 75 .300 Wby and it's pretty darn accurate. But to be honest, I wish it was chambered for the .300 RUM. I'm thinking of having it rebarreled with a Pac-Nor in the .300 RUM one of these days.

 

[Va. deer hunter]

Had a Rem.Classic in 300 Weth....After a bedding job...It would shoot 3/8" at a 100yds. (2 shots) 150gr. Wth. ammo

[ 05-01-2004: Message edited by: VaDeerHunter ]

 

[chessman]

Now this is an interesting discussion. My Dad has a WBY Vanguard in 300 WBY. Cheap gun, and not high on my list, but Dad wanted to take it hunting with me. I watched Dad take a little Coues spike at 464 yards and a single shot. That rifle has always produced sub-moa groups with factory ammo, and much tighter groups with handloads.

Now, that said, I prefer the .300 RUM, although I've never owned one. I am also not a Remington fan, and I've owned several of them. I just never liked the actions. No debate that they are accurate enough, just not my favorite.

I am surprised that nobody here suggested the Savage as a bargain that should be considered against the other two. I bought a Savage 10FP last year in .308. Out of the box with my own loads I get sub-moa groups at 1000 yards, and one ragged little hole in five shots at 100 yards. Not bad for a rifle I paid less than $600 for! I love the Accutrigger, and can rebarrel the rifle in less than half an hour with no special tools other than the barrel nut wrench. If you are on a budget, you might consider setting up a Savage in a nice stock, with one great scope, and two barrels in different chamberings to provide the best of both worlds.

As for freebore – I hate it. The whole theory of leaving the bullet piloted by an expanding neck just seems wrong. However, I've seen a number of rifles that had what I would call excessive freebore that shot great. From that, I have learned that there is a handful of dimensions that need to be kept tight and in the proper relationship to produce outstanding results. I have friends who have spent fortunes on their rifles and gained no improvement over what the factory rifle did. Everything the gunsmith did was the best way to do every step – in one theory or another – but the parts and pieces just weren't happy together.

Most major arms manufacturers have developed a recipe that produces good results in their rifles. If you take bits of one recipe and combine it with bits from another recipe you may make a better rifle, and you might wind up with a really expensive, and highly inaccurate rifle.

 

[Brent]

Nothing wrong with the 300 Ultra in a Savage. Not in this thread until now, but it's being used and has been suggested time and time again here for the same reasons you stated, so I completely agree. One of them in a lamanate stock set at a gun shop nearby, the old style receiver, no accutrigger, but it's SS and nice, only like $400 too!

 

[chessman]

Yeah, I couldn't help but think that whether you like the rifle or not, it would be a great way to test two cartridges and keep the one that performs the best. I would think that you could sell the other one – fire-formed cases, dies, and all – as a package to recoup your expenses.

 

[missedshot]

My 300 Wby shoot cloverleafs with 180 gr. Hornady sp bullets which is good enough for me .

 

[KardiacKid]

"Personally, I don't like Weatherby rifles much, never will own one. I don't mind a belted case if pressures are kept down, but always prefer a nonbelted, the Ultra for example would get my vote. "

You probably flip burgers for a living so you cant buy a Weatherby but your still an "expert"ROFL

 

[300ulrtaman]

dont listen to these weatherby guys they will not out shoot any remington let alone a sendero 300 ultra because i have one with a nightforce 5.5-22x56 and it will bug hole all day long and as far as factory ammo there is not alot of it out there but i reload for it 97grains of retumbo 210 g berger vld shoots really well also 97.5g retumbo 180 g siera gk try nosler custom brass it's weight sorted and sized buy a sendero you wont be disapointed

 

[signature542]

Interesting thread.

I own an Accumark in 300 and have set up a 300 RUM in a Sendero for a buddy, develped loads etc. I also have and shoot 30/378 and 338/378. I have carted them regularly in the field and I back pack into steep Mountain High Country. So I could say I have a a little bit of experience with both calibres. I would rather carry the Accumark any day of the week as its a lot lighter despite what the specs say, is the first point. Its lighter than a sendero and the barrel is thinner.. If you want to compare old Roy'a cartridges to a 300 RUM please try a 30/378.. No issue with a 210 Berger, a big charge of re 25 and I'm over 3200 fps.... in a 26 inch tube from the 30/378 ! Its horses for courses is my point.

Accuracy is more than just comparing calibres .. All Weatherbies listed I have used are 1/2 MOA or less if you are a keen reloader and I'm sure you can find a sweet spot. I primarily shoot 210 Bergers using a CCI250 with ADI 2213SC or Re 25 in the 300 wthby. I'm at 2950 fps with RE25 seated to mag length and I have no issue hitting a 9 inch gong at 450yards with every shot. Sorry I dont have one further out! No pressure either and cases last a long time. This is a stock factory rifle with a bedding and trigger job..
Yep the freebore is an issue but seating to mag length and driving them fast seems to get more than acceptable accuracy going up or down untill you find that load. Its quirky but you live with it.

RUM brass is pretty steep in cost here so there is no benefit with either calibre.

Yep I am also having an Edge built on a Remington action...but I dont know what the fuss about the 700 is...and if its better I cant see it. IMO the 700 action isnt better and the quality lately from the big R isnt that crash hot. There is a lot more quality in the Mk5 action but then it costs more. The mk 5 action is big and strong and was developed in its day to be the strongest.
Both rounds have a place but the old 300 Weatherby has been around a little longer and there is only a slight advantage in a RUM..Of course more bits are availble for a Rem 700.. but that doesnt stop me hunting and carting that Weatherby of mine..

 

[300R]

Wow six year old thread guy's.