300 Varminter Drop chart information (Impressive)

[wildcat]

P44,

You are correct, I am going to have Richard build a rifle for bad conditions and designed around a fast twist barrel. I am designing the rifle around the 30-338 Lapua Improved, 34" 1-11 twist Krieger Barrel and the 208grn A-Max.

You are also correct about why I had the 300 Varminter built. It gave me the best of both worlds. I will be shooting a light poly tipped varmint bullet with a decent BC at an incredible velocity which will allow me to really reach out to around 800 yards with good killing power. And the lighter bullet will allow for a really light recoil.

I have used the VLD bullets for varminting and when I shoot from 400 to 800 yards, I had many varmints and coyotes get away. Like I said, the VLD'S were punching pencil holes in them, so I wanted to build something that would allow me to use a varmint bullet with decent ballistics. The 300 Varminter was the answer for this problem. I have had a lot of luck with Ballistic Tip and V-Max bullets out to 800 yards. Another reason why I want to shoot the poly tipped bullets is due to the area we shoot in. I need the bullet to expand quickly so it does not travel farther than it needs to.

Every rifle is built for a specific need and that's why I had the 300 Varminter built. It might not be what someone else would build, but it's what I wanted. I too, am looking forward to posting the results and taking her varmint hunting soon.

W.

 

[Varminator 911]

BC and velocity of 208 Amax

Wildcat:

What kind of velocity are you expecting in the setup you mentioned? And do you have an estimate of the BC of the 208 Amax? Last I checked don't think Hornady had the BC listed. I read the other day that someone measured the BC of the 7mm 162 Amax below 0.6. That was the bullet I had in mind for a long range rig.

Thanks!!

 

[crypto666]

I am not to sure about this round either. I ran the numbers with a constant bc of .29 and MV of 4100.

JBM calcs is showing -22.7 MOA, velocity 1175, 337.6 ft/lbs, at 1000 yards.
I don't see what the big deal is either, especially with being so wind sensitive.

I guess it goes fast....

I think 400-500 yards it would awesome, but 800, I think I would rather a .5 bc or better bullet.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Patriot44,

You misunderstand my comments, I am not talking about bad conditions, I am talking about good conditions, there will still be alot of wind drift.

I am not talking about dealing with 15 mph winds or 20 mph winds, I am talking about the difference between a 0 mph shot and a 2 mph shot, the bullet impact will be shifted a full 10". At 1000 yards, this same differencec, a 0 and 2 mph wind will result in nearly 19" if drift.

I can not talk for Wildcat, I can not talk for you but I can talk for myself and being able to read, judge and predict a 2 mph wind over a 1/2 mile range is simply not a practical thing to do. As you can see, I am not referring to anything remotely similiar to bad shooting conditions, I am talking about good shooting conditions with only 2 mph variation in winds.

As far as being impressed by drop numbers, I do not understand that, bullet drop is easy to figure, its consistant and predictable. Bullet drop at ranges over 600 yards are really meaningless, everything will need significant adjustment to be on target. Because one combination has 1/5 moa less drop then most other high performance varmint rounds at long range should not be something to cheer about as a major break through.

REcoil, moot point, with a varmint weight rifle and a quality muzzle brake, you will see the bullet impact at any range you shoot at with the 300 WSM with a 125 gr pill or 210 gr pill.

My 300 Allen Xpress will drive a 200 gr Accubond to 3500 fps, its a 15 lb rifle and it recoil less then a 12 lb 22-250 Rem. You can see your bullets impact at any range from a solid shooting position and you could shoot it ALL DAY LONG with no shooter fatique of any kind. Your comment about recoil is not a valid one in this case. THe WSM is a ***** cat to shoot in a varmint weight rifle, add a brake and there is no recoil no matter what bullet weight you use.

To that same point, I thought we were talking about long range varmint shooting. I assure you, even without a brake, at 800 to 1000 yards, you will most certainly have enough time to recover from recoil to see your bullet impact, even without a brake installed, with a brake again, you would never have a problem seeing every bullet impact, even with a 240 gr SMK.

THe most amazing thing about this entire combination is getting 4000 fps with a 125 gr bullet in the WSM, thats about where its wonder ends to be honest.

I will conceed that barrel life with this combo will be relatively high. I would also state that I would bet that barrel life would be even longer using a 210 gr Berger loaded to 2900 fps compared to a 110 or 125 gr bullet loaded to 4050 to 4140 fps. Why, it takes less powder to drive the 210 gr bullet and I assure you chamber pressure is much more comfortable for the 210 gr load.

Again, just to make my original point clear, I am not saying that you need bad shooting conditions before you will see the limitations of this chambering and load combo. You will notice it with every 2 mph shift in wind speed, even if your talking about 0 to 4 mph winds which most shooters do not even notice most of the time.

If your getting 10" if drift with only 2 mph of wind variation at 800 yards and nearly 19" of drift with the same wind speed at 1000 yards, getting first shot kills at long range will be extremely difficult.

Now if your happy with throwing a sighter round down range to see where it hits and then correcting for the first shot miss, thats one thing, after a sighter shot, adjustments can be made and you will be right there. Anyway, I am not trying to convince you or WIldcat, I am just offering solid factual data, if you choose not to realize it then so be it.

The way I see it, if I take three rifles on a long range P. dog hunt, I want to be able to use all three in all conditions. If one is a slow twist barrel only practical in dead calm conditions or after a first shot sighter shot your really limiting yourself.

Also, about those areas where there are no winds. Please tell me where those areas are, I may move there!!! LOL

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Wildcat,

I have never seen the problems you are talking about with the Berger VLDs pen holing game at long range. Now the SMK can do this because of their heavier jackets but I have never witnessed anything but dramatic expansion with the Bergers even on varmints.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[wildcat]

Varminter911,

The 208grn A-Max has a BC of .648, and I will be shooting it out of a Krieger 34", 1-11 twist barrel. I am Hoping to get between 3200 to 3300fps with the 34" barrel and 30/338 Lapua Improved cartridge.

I was thinking about going with a regular 30-378 Weatherby Magnum or 300 RUM. However, Lapua Brass is excellent, so that's the reason I am going to use the 30/338 Lapua Improved cartridge. The others would be much easier to load, so they are tempting. It will be an awesome set up for long range varminting from 800 to 2000 yards. I am still waiting on parts, and I have changed my mind a couple of times. The build will not be completed this year. I was hoping to have it for my trip to Wyoming.

Here the specs;

1. 30/338 Lapua Improved
2. BAT 8.5, 1.55 Diameter Action
3. Krieger 34", 1-11.5 twist, 1.450 straight cylinder barrel
4. McMillan Tooley MBR Stock with lead added to rear
5. Jewel Trigger
6. Brake-undecided at the moment?
7. BAT 40MOA Rail
8. Nightforce 30mm Rings
9. Nightforce NXS 12x42x56mm
10. Total weight 35lb's

When the conditions get bad at the longer ranges and the 300 Varminter begins to have too much trouble, at the longer ranges, this will be the set up I will reach for when the shot is past 800 yards.

I am trying to build my rifle pile back up. About a year ago, I had to sell 4 of my custom rifles do to some bad times. I sold a custom 223, custom 220 Swift, custom 6x284, custom 6.5x284 and custom 338 Yogi (338 Lapua Improved). It was really hard to let all of those rifles go.

Is there anyone else out there using a .30 cal cartridge and the 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT for varminting. There are guys on other sites that are using a .30 cal cartridge and 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT. I would like to hear what your drop chart is like and how these bullets work for you at ranges from 100 to 800 yards.

W.

 

[jwp475]

I wish that Wildcat would just shoot the barrel burner and stop trying to convence everyone that it is the Cats ***....

 

[wildcat]

Fifty, don't get me wrong they were killing the varmints, I just had a lot more get away with these types of bullets. I am not saying they wont kill, I stand corrected if it sounded that way. I just have had better luck at the ranges I shoot at with the V-Max and Ballistic Tip bullets.

W.

 

[wildcat]

JWP475,

I am not trying to convince anyone. All I did was share the drop chart informaton with those who might be interested in a varmint set up like this. I hope the barrel burns out, that will mean I am shooting a bunch. And if it does, I will buy another one. Who cares, the bottom line, the rifle will works well. Maybe, you don't like it, but I do. I have other rifles built around fast twist barrels. It's not like I just shoot slow twist rifles. I like talking about all differrent types of set ups.

I am not confined to one way of thinking. I know the higher BC bullet thing works, I am not disputing that. I just like to try all diferent types of builds. I have come to the conclusion that this rifle, the 300 Varminter, will be perfect for the area I shoot in. Sorry, it works for me. I am not asking for anyones opinion, but I keep getting them. Thank you, but no thank you, stop giving them to me. I did not ask.

I have learned my lesson a long time ago on this site. I have learned not to ask for anyones opinion anymore. If you do, and go against it, it's like you have commited a federal crime against those who only believe that the high BC bullet is the only way to go. God forbid try something you want to and that has proved to work for certain conditions.

W.

 

[Varminator 911]

Comparison of range for equal wind drift

Mine may be a simplistic approch. But I do believe that wind drift, not drop, is the limiting factor at long range. So I compared four setups to see the distance at which they have equal wind drift(~36 inches wind drift at 4500ft elev in 10 mph cross wind). The four are 140 gr accubond/BT at 3000fps, my current rig, 120 gr BT .308 at 4000fps, 208 Amax at 3250fps, and about the best I've seen a 0.9BC at 3350fps.

Results are: 140gr 7mm 730yds, 120gr .308 770yds, 208 Amax 940yds, and 0.9BC 1150yds.

My little 7-08 with a 140gr Accubond doesn't look so bad in this comparison. The longest range rig only adds about 57% to the range of my rig when compared on equal inches of wind drift.

Can someone tell me why my comparison is off base? These numbers don't make me want to invest in a 35 lb rig compared to my current 8.5 lb beauty. Of course the heavier rig will be easier to shoot accurately.

I like all the setups mentioned and don't have an axe to grind with anyone Just thinking in a way that makes sence to me.

Thank you!! Steve

 

[Waltech Jim]

Is there anyone else out there using a .30 cal cartridge and the 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT for varminting. There are guys on other sites that are using a .30 cal cartridge and 110grn V-Max and 125grn BT. I would like to hear what your drop chart is like and how these bullets work for you at ranges from 100 to 800 yards.

W.

I have a 300 Winmag that is a dedicated pd rifle. At this time it has a 1.5 inch Krieger SS at 30 inches, 1/12 twist barrel. Custom brake. Built on a Winchester M17 action. I shoot mostly 125 Btips through it, but have shot a lot of 110 V-max at times depending on the distance I have to shoot. I have shot some 150 and 168 gr through it at times also at distances to 1000 yds.

The rifle is used PRIMARILY FOR BLOWING UP PDS UP TO 800 YDS. I have no desire to shoot this rifle, past that distance at this time. At the speed I am shooting the 125s, they are starting to fall pretty fast around 750 yds, and will occasionally pencil through a small pd past 700.

This is not my first 30 cal rifle used to shoot light bullets fast. My first adventure was a 300 Winmag with a Shilen. I found early on that the 110 Vmax can be pushed only so fast and it would blow up. The twist was too fast. I tried the 125 Btips and they held together. I remember taking the 125s up into the 4000 fps range with the 30 inch Shilen and then backing down to around 3950. It was fun, but I don't think I got 1200 rounds out of the barrel.

I tried not to overheat the barrel, but pd shooting is just not: shooting one round and then let the barrel cool. I tend to keep shooting until I HAVE to stop because the barrel is hot. Replacing barrels is the price of having that kind of fun.

I am trying to save this barrel because it is a sweet one. It is fast and I had no trouble getting over 4000 with it. However, my loads now are at 3800 fps. I found a sweet spot, the speed still gives me (relatively) good ballistics to 750 and the pressure is easy on the cases and throat. I am a little over 1000 rounds with this one and I think it will go to 2000 with careful use.

To me, the visual aspect of this sport is all important. If the pd does not blow up because of the construction of the bullet, the stimulus is lost. I have always been under the impression (from the ones I tried) that heavier, match bullets would pencil through at longer distances. This drove my choice of barrel twist and bullet weight.

I built the rifle around the available bullets. If a new bullet, or new information comes along, I would likely change the specs on the next barrel to shoot a heavier bullet, if it would expand on pds past 750 yds. Kirby's got me thinkin', so I will try some Bergers. I thought all Bergers had a very strong jacket.

Wildcat, I am sure you will thoroughly enjoy the rifle.

Jim

 

[bailey1474]

Not trying to stir the pot (ok, maybe I am), but here is an immpressive drop chart:

270 AM : 169.5 WC ULD/RBBT
SIGHT IN FIELD
DATA DATA
MUZZLE VELOCITY (fps) 3400 3400 TARGET
BULLET WEIGHT (grains) 170 HEIGHT
SIGHT HT ABOVE BORE (in) 1.7 (in)
SIGHT IN DISTANCE (yd) 100 2
ALTITUDE (ft) 0 0 4
TEMPERATURE (deg F) 59 59 6
PRESSURE @ SEA LEVEL (in Hg) 29.53 29.53 8
RELATIVE HUMIDITY (pct) 78 78 10
WIND VELOCITY (mph) 10
WIND ANGLE (deg) 90 ( 3.0 O'Clock)
INCLINE ANGLE (deg) 0
MAX APPARENT TRAJECTORY (in) 0
BALLISTIC COEFF 0.74


Sight Adjustments Needed Trajectory Values
RANGE Elevation Windage Tgt Lead Elevation Wind Drift
(yd) MOA MOA MOA (in) (in)
0 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1.7 0.0
25 3.75 0.00 1.50 -1.0 0.0
50 0.75 0.25 1.50 -0.5 -0.1
75 0.25 0.25 1.50 -0.1 -0.2
100 0.00 0.25 1.50 0.0 -0.3
125 0.00 0.50 1.50 -0.1 -0.5
150 0.25 0.50 1.50 -0.4 -0.8
175 0.50 0.50 1.50 -0.9 -1.0
200 0.75 0.75 1.50 -1.6 -1.4
225 1.00 0.75 1.50 -2.5 -1.7
250 1.50 0.75 1.50 -3.7 -2.2
275 1.75 1.00 1.50 -5.1 -2.6
300 2.25 1.00 1.50 -6.7 -3.1
325 2.50 1.00 1.50 -8.6 -3.7
350 3.00 1.25 1.50 -10.7 -4.3
375 3.25 1.25 1.50 -13.1 -5.0
400 3.75 1.25 1.50 -15.8 -5.7
425 4.25 1.50 1.75 -18.7 -6.4
450 4.75 1.50 1.75 -21.9 -7.2
475 5.00 1.75 1.75 -25.3 -8.1
500 5.50 1.75 1.75 -29.1 -9.0
525 6.00 1.75 1.75 -33.1 -10.0
550 6.50 2.00 1.75 -37.4 -11.0
575 7.00 2.00 1.75 -42.1 -12.1
600 7.50 2.00 1.75 -47.0 -13.3
625 8.00 2.25 1.75 -52.3 -14.5
650 8.50 2.25 1.75 -57.9 -15.7
675 9.00 2.50 1.75 -63.8 -17.1
700 9.50 2.50 1.75 -70.1 -18.4
725 10.00 2.50 1.75 -76.7 -19.9
750 10.75 2.75 1.75 -83.7 -21.4
775 11.25 2.75 1.75 -91.0 -23.0
800 11.75 3.00 1.75 -98.7 -24.6
825 12.25 3.00 1.75 -106.8 -26.3
850 13.00 3.25 1.75 -115.3 -28.1
875 13.50 3.25 1.75 -124.2 -29.9
900 14.25 3.50 1.75 -133.5 -31.8
925 14.75 3.50 1.75 -143.3 -33.8
950 15.50 3.50 1.75 -153.5 -35.9
975 16.00 3.75 1.75 -164.1 -38.0
1000 16.75 3.75 1.75 -175.1 -40.2



Notice that is w/a 100 yd zero. I've seen this in action. Heck if you want to run pressures up you can get 3500 fps w/a 30" bbl. Maybe you can get Kirby to build you one of these .

 

[wildcat]

B1474,

That is a very impresive chart.

W.

 

[wildcat]

Waltec Jim,

Thanks for the info. I will only shoot my 300 Varminter out to 800 yards too. The majority of the shooting will probably be from 400 to 600 yards, so it should be real fun to shoot.

W.