300 or 338

[Broz]

My belief:

.30 for under 1000

.338 for over 1000

This is good advice and we shoot both. The 300 win with a 210 is very good medicine for elk to 1000 and we have taken seveal good bulls. With the use of a 230 Berger I would maybe stretch it out to 1100 in perfect conditions. The 300 win picks up an additional 130 lbs of energy with a 230 over a 210 at 1000 yards and at this point the 230 becomes the faser bulet.

Beyond that it will be the 338 with a 300 gr Berger for me.

Jeff

 

[shepardsonp]

The big 338's cannot do anything at 1,000 yds that a 300 RUM cannot do just as well (except deliver more ft. lbs. of energy). Where the big 338's really shine is at 1,200 to 2,00 yds. At those distances, the differences are very noticable. The big 338's are more expensive to shoot, even if you reload yourself. So, unless you really need a big 338, I would stick with the 300 RUM.

I am currently in the process of gathering parts for a 338 Lapua improved build. Guess I can't take my own advice.

Point taken, however if you go down the Lapua path you are orrect on the cost to reload. I have went the wildcat route .338 on the 300 RUM case that outperforms the 338 Lapua and the cost to reload is less. For example, brass for the .338 Lapua is $3/per cartridge vs. $.50 for 300 RUM.

The .338 RUM cartridge does not have the same case capacity as the 300 RUM.

 

[Broz]

if you go down the Lapua path you are orrect on the cost to reload. I have went the wildcat route .338 on the 300 RUM case that outperforms the 338 Lapua and the cost to reload is less. For example, brass for the .338 Lapua is $3/per cartridge vs. $.50 for 300 RUM.
.

Sorry but I disagree, and so does internet pricing at midway on your brass prices.

First the 338 EDGE (338/300 rum) and 338 Lapua are almost identical in ballistics. But it you want to push the 338 LM in Lapua brass you have the option and it will out preform the EDGE by a very small margin. If you load them both to the max load of, lets say 92 gr of H-1000 with a 300 gr bullet the REM brass will start to have loose primer pockets at 3 or 4 firings. However the Lapua brass will be going strong for long after.

I just checked www.midwayusa and the cost of REM 300 RUM brass is $109 per 100. The cost of 338 LM is $280 per 100. So once you have tossed 3 sets of the "less expensive brass" and the LM brass is still going strong the LM has now become the better value. If you take into consideration the brass quality the LM wins hands down. So if you cull 20% of the REM now where are you?

Not sure where you got your info but I can tell you after owning both my statements are correct.

Jeff

References:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601453486/remington-reloading-brass-300-remington-ultra-magnum

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/253474/lapua-reloading-brass-338-lapua-magnum-box-of-100

 

[Bravo 4]

The big 338's cannot do anything at 1,000 yds that a 300 RUM cannot do just as well (except deliver more ft. lbs. of energy).

To me this sentence kind of contradicts itself.

 

[azsugarbear]

Not exactly sure what you found contradictory about the statement, but perhaps I should have gone further with the thought process.

First of all, whether we are talking about the the 338 RUM, 338 Edge, or 338 Lapua - they all are ballistically pretty close to each other. So let's use the 338 Lapua to compare to the 300 RUM. Let's use the following as examples:

240 SMK @ 2,750 fps
230 OTM @ 2,800 fps
210 VLD @ 2,950 fps
200 AB @ 3,015 fps

The end result at 1,000 yds for each of the loads is anywhere from 20.5 to 23.5 MOA dial up for elevation. The hold-off for a 10 mph crosswind is either 5.25 to 5.5 MOA depending on the example used. Foot pounds of energy delivered at 1,000 yds ranges from approx. 1,250 ft/lbs for the 200 gr AB on up to 1,500ft/lbs for the 240 SMK.

The lapua loaded with a 300 gr OTM @2,750 fps requires 21.5 MOA dial up for elevation. With the same wind conditions, hold-off is about 4.5 MOA. These numbers are pretty much in line with the ballistics of the 300 RUM loads. No real advantage that I can see. Now when it comes to energy delivered, there is a real difference with the 338 Lapua delivering an est. 2,175 ft/lbs.

There has been a long-standing consensus in hunting/shooting circles that a minimum of 1,000 ft/lbs is necessary to kill an elk cleanly. It can be done with less, but for the average shooter, 1,000 ft./lbs is a good rule of thumb. With that in mind, any of the 300 RUM loads along with the 338 Lapua load, deliver substantially more energy than what is required. That's why I noted the ft/lbs delivered by the 338 Lapua as an exception.

So, from a ballistics point of view, the 300 RUM can pretty much do what the big 338's do. Additional energy is always nice - providing you can manage the recoil, but dead is still dead.

 

[Bravo 4]

Oh I understand what you were getting at, and I can run numbers through a ballistic calculator. I'm sure not calling you out or trying to start a fight, but just the sentence itself is like saying "it's the same thing, only different".
Sure the .300's can hang with the .338's as far as trajectory, but then again so can 7's and 6.5's. The dramatic difference is the size of the can-o-whoop-*** delivered on target. I've had a 7mag, .300mag and a .338 Edge and there is no comparison. The .300 kills but the .338 devastates. Most of the wound channels I would describe as horrific.
Try compairing my Dodge Dakota and my 4dr 4x4 Ram. Sure they will get you there, but it's not the same.

 

[Broz]

So, from a ballistics point of view, the 300 RUM can pretty much do what the big 338's do. Additional energy is always nice - providing you can manage the recoil, but dead is still dead.

And I will add this is only true till the smaller calibers stat to peter out. There is a point where the 338 will not only shine in energy, but will also take over in ballistics and do it all with less drift.

Jeff

 

[azsugarbear]

Going back to the original post we read the following:

"Will definetly have a muzzle break and be around 9 lb. rifle before scope. I want to enjoy shooting it without taking a beating. I have a .30-06 and 7mm mag so I want something larger pretty much for elk, long range shots, sub 1/2 moa, and just fun.

What caliber is a good balance of recoil and velocity within the caliber range above?"

Let's see: A 9 lb. rifle, doesn't want heavy recoil or take a beating, will handle elk at long range, and good balance of recoil. Yep, sounds like a big 338 to me.

The original post or question was never about which caliber can deliver max energy downrange. Just enough energy to kill elk at LR. My point was that a 300 RUM could do just that with less recoil/energy than the 338's. Hence the "except" comment to point out the unnecessary energy/recoil.

......so to difuse the situation and placate Bravo4 I will conceed the point. I was asserting that the color was beige when in fact it was tan. I must have thought they were the same thing...........only different.

 

[window licker]

Good thread and points on both fronts, I kind of compromised and am having a 300 Norma built to run the 230 Berger hybrid. I should have it done in a couple of weeks and will post some info when its complete if your interested. I can't find much info on it so if any of you have messed with one I would like to hear about it.

 

[TXshooter]

I just wanted to say I like either one and own both. I wouldn't worry about recoil. My 338 Norma with muzzle brake kicks no more than my 300 win mag without muzzle brake. Both are heavy 9+ pound rifle I'll give it that. All I'm saying is if you brake it the recoil isn't much

 

[bigbuck]

Just wanted to add my .02
I'm not sure what the weight of a .300 RUM in a sendero but i would say atleast 9 pounds. Now I have a DE break on it and a custom barrel but it's still the sendero contour without the flutes . The break made it a totally different gun to shoot. recoil wise.

I have shot 7mm to 300 winmags since I was 15 years old and they had the little skinny barrels . So I aint recoil scared but I found out that the heavier the better .
A 9 pound .300 RUM without a break loaded close to max on the powder scale (if you shoot from a bench with light clothing will STOMP YOUR GUTS OUT !!!

If I where a betting man I would put money on it that know matter how well you shoot you will shoot better with a .300 RUM Or .338 EDGE/ Lapua Braked than not braked . Just look on this site for example what is all the guys shooting with at 1000 and beyond they are using big calibers packed full of powder and a nice tank style brake ....

 

[meat head]

I am going to have a new rifle built and am really struggeling on 300 win mag to 338 edge. Somewhere in there is where I want to land but not sure. Will definetly have a muzzle break and be around 9 lb. rifle before scope. I want to enjoy shooting it without taking a beating. I have a .30-06 and 7mm mag so I want something larger pretty much for elk, long range shots, sub 1/2 moa, and just fun.

What caliber is a good balance of recoil and velocity within the caliber range above?

Thanks for the help.

guys around here shoot 300 mag or ultra mag for elk when they go but i prefer the 7mm mag myself
meat head

 

[WildRose]

guys around here shoot 300 mag or ultra mag for elk when they go but i prefer the 7mm mag myself
meat head

Considering the truck loads of Elk taken with the 30-06, 7mm RM and even the .270 win I find it very difficult to justify owning anything larger than the 300 Rum unless one is intent on shooting Elk sized or larger/dangerous game beyond 1,000yds.

Note I own 7mm RM, 7mm STW, 300wm, 300Rum and have shot a lot of critters at long range for a very long time with them all except the Rum which is still a relative newbie in my gun cabinet having only been there for a couple of years now.

 

[meat head]

Considering the truck loads of Elk taken with the 30-06, 7mm RM and even the .270 win I find it very difficult to justify owning anything larger than the 300 Rum unless one is intent on shooting Elk sized or larger/dangerous game beyond 1,000yds.

Note I own 7mm RM, 7mm STW, 300wm, 300Rum and have shot a lot of critters at long range for a very long time with them all except the Rum which is still a relative newbie in my gun cabinet having only been there for a couple of years now.

I have been going to my hunting club with bigbuck he has been shooting 1000 they just picked the corn now he can get 1445 if i ranged it right,he shoots a 300 ultramag i beleive im working my way up but i dont have a fancy scope just a 3x9x40 charles daily no mill or moa dials, or computer. lol. gun)