JJMoody
Well-Known Member
Are the 300 otm tactical and hybrid otm tactical the same Bullet? Logic tells me no, but for the life of me, I can't find the difference on Bergers website.
300 grain Berger question
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Your books look well read. Explains some things. LOL Lots of good info in them.
I use the hybrid OTM tactical bullet. I copied some comments from others in my files:
(Thanks to Jeff aka Broz and Bryan Litz)
Broz comments on performance of 300 OTM on game
bedded cow at 816 yards. Impact velocity was 1975 fps. Cow was slightly facing away. Entrance was in the crease behind the near shoulder. Exit was far shoulder. I was kind of surprised that the exit was only 1 1/2" or so. But this exit is deceiving. Note the bone fragments on the hair around the hole. Inside was total destruction and the exit shoulder was a loss. Elk died quick and clean. I am pleased.
OTM vs Elite hunter
Bryan Litz: "The Gen II, thicker jacket has become the Tactical OTM, and is not recommended for hunting (although it's difficult for 300 grains of supersonic metal to not be lethal). "
Nevertheless, we will be re-introducing the thinner jacket Gen I bullet with it's known upper pressure/velocity limit well understood and published, for those hunters who desire the rapid expansion characteristics of Berger Hunting bullets. These two bullets will be identical on the outside, the only difference being jacket thickness. Of course the hunting bullets will not be recommended for use in cartridges larger than .338 Lapua Mag because of the known structural limitations of that bullet.
0.005" isn't much, but considering the jacket is only ~0.025" thick; 0.005" is 20%. If I'm remembering my material-strength studies from college, structural integrity is proportional to the square (or cube...?) of thickness. In other words, the 20% thicker jacket could be more than 44% stronger which results in very significant differences in terminal performance.
(Thanks to Jeff aka Broz and Bryan Litz)
Broz comments on performance of 300 OTM on game
bedded cow at 816 yards. Impact velocity was 1975 fps. Cow was slightly facing away. Entrance was in the crease behind the near shoulder. Exit was far shoulder. I was kind of surprised that the exit was only 1 1/2" or so. But this exit is deceiving. Note the bone fragments on the hair around the hole. Inside was total destruction and the exit shoulder was a loss. Elk died quick and clean. I am pleased.
OTM vs Elite hunter
Bryan Litz: "The Gen II, thicker jacket has become the Tactical OTM, and is not recommended for hunting (although it's difficult for 300 grains of supersonic metal to not be lethal). "
Nevertheless, we will be re-introducing the thinner jacket Gen I bullet with it's known upper pressure/velocity limit well understood and published, for those hunters who desire the rapid expansion characteristics of Berger Hunting bullets. These two bullets will be identical on the outside, the only difference being jacket thickness. Of course the hunting bullets will not be recommended for use in cartridges larger than .338 Lapua Mag because of the known structural limitations of that bullet.
0.005" isn't much, but considering the jacket is only ~0.025" thick; 0.005" is 20%. If I'm remembering my material-strength studies from college, structural integrity is proportional to the square (or cube...?) of thickness. In other words, the 20% thicker jacket could be more than 44% stronger which results in very significant differences in terminal performance.
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don't get to caught up in published dimensions on the berger bullets. I have seen them numbers off as much as .030 on oal. with the 215 hybrid being the worst. but BTO. has been very consistent within the same lot but not within different lots. so it would be difficult to say if a thicker jacket would have any affect in one way or another on any one dimension
JJMoody
Well-Known Member
It seems like some naming etc... has changed hybrid OTM- Now OTM hybrid or vice versa. I picked up a few boxes from two different guys and in classic form, got caught up in the minutiae of Berger switching the first two words around. Different lot numbers, obviously, but same part number. Then was thinking that the jackets on different Bullets were changed at different stages in manufacturing and questioned whether or not same part number would mean same Bullet or not. (Not very well worded, but hopefully understandable question)
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Same part number should be the same bullet but I never knew about them switching the jackets that would raise a question seeing the different wording
JJMoody
Well-Known Member
I'm probably overlooking the popcorn on this...
Bryan Litz's books are very good, have them too.
In the earlier book he measured the bullets using a different older method, in the newer book you will notice the word "Keyence" on the drawing denoting use of a Keyence measuring machine they purchased. This accounts for some discrepancy, there may also be two different lots of bullets measured in the two books. I once measured a box of 250 Berger 300 grain OTM'S for overall length and found over .030" variation due to meplat inconsistencies. So, there are length and meplat variations within lots too.
I was aware of the gen I bullets having jacket issues, however I did not know they planned on reintroducing it. For hunting? Did this become the Elite Hunter? If they did actually reintroduce the gen I, they would need to clearly state the velocity restriction for their use.
In the earlier book he measured the bullets using a different older method, in the newer book you will notice the word "Keyence" on the drawing denoting use of a Keyence measuring machine they purchased. This accounts for some discrepancy, there may also be two different lots of bullets measured in the two books. I once measured a box of 250 Berger 300 grain OTM'S for overall length and found over .030" variation due to meplat inconsistencies. So, there are length and meplat variations within lots too.
I was aware of the gen I bullets having jacket issues, however I did not know they planned on reintroducing it. For hunting? Did this become the Elite Hunter? If they did actually reintroduce the gen I, they would need to clearly state the velocity restriction for their use.
