.300 Allen Xpress ....looking for all the info i can get

[davewilson]

i never implied the AX wasn't a tad better. i just said if you couldn't get it done with the 300rum, you wouldn't with the other. at long range, that 100-150 fps means very little. i almost went with the Lapua case when i built my Edge, but when i realized all of the reloading stuff i'd need that i didn't have, it's what changed my mind. the point 475 and myself are making is, no bolt face mods, no fireforming, for me, no extra reloading stuff. al in all, the rum will be less hassles and for a newbie, he should try to keep things within the "KISS" system.

obviously for some of us it would be worth it, and some it wouldn't.

 

[royinidaho]

Thats funny coming from a known 270 owner!

Yeah, I have one of those little pecker wood 270 AMs.
Here's what I've figured out. Note that I've had to come a long way from shooting the same 270 Win for over 30 years. The Allen Mag has caused me to learn a bunch in a very short time period.

What I appreciate my 270 AM as is a shooting system designed to operate within a specific high intensity design window. That is, APS Cartridge design, Wildcat 169gr RBBT bullet, Lilja 3 groove barrel (APS specs), a very slow burning ball powder and even the characteristics of Rem Brass may be factored in, all go together to form an extreme shooting system that will operate precisely as designed.

I had ordered a 224 AM for LR yotes. That design hadn't yet achieved full design and I switched the order to the 270 AM for the same target animal. I believe the 270 AM was designed for the largest mule deer and any thing smaller.

Then I get the thing and begin thinking elk That causes me to think bigger bullets. That caused me some problems. I got outside of the design window and got unexpected results which should have been expected from the get go but I'm a little slow (30 years same cartridge, powder, primer and bullet rut). But, hey, it was worth it.

What does this have to do with the 30 AX? I'm thinking that Kirby has learned some stuff along the way with all of this design work. I'm betting that one of stuff is the worth of Lapua brass in these extreme cartridge designs.

If I had a 30 AX I'd be saying the same thing. But, I have a pic in my mind of a 338 AX, and then a and then a and ............

Any of the Allen designs, once released, will do what they are designed to do when kept within the bounds of the design criteria, thumbs down! Or should that be thumbs up?!!!

Edit: From the time I started this reply to the time I actually posted, the complexion of the thread has changed a bit.

This post is not intended to be anything like a negative response or flame, if you will. Just my learning experience.

Hell, if I could build my own I wouldn't own anything that anyone else made.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Wambo and Phorwath,

I agree totally with your comments. At times good design and strong cases can make up for shear cubic inches in volume.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

JWP475,

I did read your post, several times and you flat out stated that even with the strength and quality of the Lapua case, the 300 AX offers nothing over the 300 RUM.

Yes its because of the added strength but also the added case capacity that gives it a boost over the 300 RUM.

IT has been like that down the line with my Allen Magnums and Allen Xpress rounds based on the 338 Lapua case compared to the RUM rounds in the same caliber.

In a 26" barrel, the 7mm RUM will drive a 160 gr bullet to 3250 to 3300 fps with very top end loads, meaning 4 firings per case before the primer pockets let loose. My 7mm Allen Magnum can easily break 3500 fps with this same bullet weight in same barrel lengths with 2 to 3 times this case life. Not to mention it can drive a 180 gr bullet to the same velocity as a 7mm RUM can drive the 160 gr bullet. Or another example, my 7mm AM will drive a 200 gr ULD RBBT as fast as a 7mm RUM will drive a 180 gr Berger with same length barrels. Yes, velocity is the same, BC is dramatically different that is where the real advantage comes from.

With the 338 Allen Xpress, I can push a 300 gr SMK to 2900 fps in a 27" barrel length. Compared to a 338-300 RUM, thats 100 to 125 fps more velocity then can be achieved with this round in the same length barrel with same bullet. And I have yet to even push this round to its limits yet as far as pressure. By that I mean i have yet to even see a shiny mark on the case head from the ejector........

The 300 Allen Xpress has offered the same exact performance gains over the RUM.

Is 100 to 150 fps worth it, Maybe not if your talking about the middle of the road performance rounds but when your talking about adding that to the top end of the performance ladder, I feel its plenty significant.

its like saying the 280 rem will do anything the 7mm Rem Mag will do, or that the 7mm Rem Mag will do anything the 7mm STW will do, or that the 7mm STW will do anything the 7mm RUM will do, or that the 7mm RUM will do anything the 7mm AM will do. They are all steps in performance progression, are they worth it, maybe not to some but to many it is well worth it.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Dave,

I guess I am in the business, at least part of my business is to look at the current top level of performance and use that as my starting point for my wildcats.

I would agree that 100 to 150 fps on its own merit using conventional bullets is not a huge step up, but realize it is a step up from the current top rung of the performance ladder.

Also, while this velocity gain is not dramatic, consider what with the extra horsepower, you have the ability to add 15 to 20 grains in bullet weight and match the velocity of the lighter bullet weights in the smaller rounds. This is where long range performance comes from. The added BC of the heavier bullets can be dramatic and at long range the differnece can be HUGE in wind drift, drop, retained velocity, retained energy and in penetration.

So while many focus on simply a fps gain, I generally look at seeing if I can get a boost in bullet weight and BC and then the gains are VERY large, much larger then with conventional bullet weights.

Now you can say if you use the new bullets in the smaller rounds they to gain ballistic performance and that is certainly true, but the heavier the bullets get and the longer the bullets get, the larger the advantage for a case that has a capacity and strength advantage over the smaller cases.

In the 30 cal rounds, with a 165 gr bullet, the AX may only have a 100 fps advantage over the RUM, with a 180 gr bullet, it appears its closer to 150 fps or a bit more, with a 200 gr bullet it will often push closer to 200 fps.

In my heavy rifle, with a 31" barrel, I was shooting the 200 gr Accubonds to 3490 fps average. Now I have built many long barreled 300 RUMs and I have yet to see one that had a barrel length of 31" or longer break 3300 fps with a 200 gr Accubond without loosing their primer pockets.

With the 240 gr pill, using US869, I could get 3250 fps pretty easily with my 31" barrel, you will not see that or anything close to it with the RUM with any case life at all.

Anyway, I will agree that if your comparing apples to apples, 100 to 150 fps does not mean all that much at long range, but the ability to drive much heavier, much longer, much higher BC bullets at the same velocity does offer a dramatic increase in ballistic and terminal performance over what the 300 rum can offer. Is it worth it, thats up to the individual.

As far as loading a wildcat like this, I am setting up with most of my wildcats to offer formed cases to my customers so this is really not a concern at all. If some are intimidated by the forming process that is no longer a worry, if some do not want to put corn meal down their fine barrels, again, that is not a worry, they can get formed cased from me if they send in their virgin cases so that argument is not really valid concerning my wildcat rounds anymore.

Certainly, I do not want to take anything away from the RUM or Edge, that is not my intent and I know full well what those two round can and will do with quality rifles, ammo and shooter, my business is just to take things to that next level, and then to the next level and then the next...... That is my passion and so far we are doing alright with the help of some new bullet designs by Richard Graves.

Good Shooting

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[shortshooter]

30 alllen

Why doesn't Lapua just start making 30-378 brass? Wouldn't this be easier?

BTW I have a 30-378 but don't care for the double radius case. But it would be nice to have sturdy brass just the same.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Shortshooter,

If there was Lapua made 30-378 and 338-378 brass, I would not have come out with my 300 AX and 338 AX because there would have been no way they would have been able to match the performance of these rounds with good brass.

It would be nice if Lapua would come out with this case but Wby is pretty wedded to Norma so I do not see this happening.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[shortshooter]

Me thinks Weatherby needs to divorce Norma and hook up with Lapua's brass mfg.