30 Nosler Ladder Test Input

[Gamesniper19]

I am not against trying other powders - really looking for advise from others that have experience

My OP said that this was my first ladder test - so not much experience at all shooting long distances - so I am not saying that it isn't related to me at all. I will say that I have been shooting my entire life and with an Atlas Cal Bipod and a good rear bag, all of my shots felt really solid.

100% agree that accuracy trumps barrel life - hence why I have not complained about it in this post. In the grand scheme of things, barrels are cheap

A chrono is not necessary for a ladder test as long as the ladder is acting as it should. We are looking for a horizontal node at a specific load family. A chrono may not be necessary at all, even for running DOPE but that is a discussion for another day.

I have run Retumbo, 7828 SSC and have some H1000 data. Retumbo ran the best although the real difference was not in group size, it was speed and recoil. I have a proof 9.25 twist in a 25 inch length.
210 ablr, cci 250, ADG brass - all ladders were run with .012 jump

1. 7828 SSC - 75.6 grains at 2872 - .41 MOA
2. H1000 - 79.2 grains at 2966 - .38 MOA
3. Retumbo - 82.1 grains at 3014 - .32 MOA I also had a decent node at 83.4 running 3057 but for the 43 fps i stayed at the lower charge

Once I achieve sub 1/2 in a heavy magnum hunting rifle, I stop tuning. I shoot it to hunt not steel which I usually tune to sub .24 MOA or better in my 6.5 and 6mm stuff.

 

[Chadp82]

If I am looking at the target correctly, these are 2 shots per load.

I normally run 3 shot groups in a ladder test to help determine if there is a flyer or not. With only 2, 1 could be good and one could be a flyer from the shooter or other factor, and you are left guessing.

Looks like the 81.5 is promising. Especially at 500!

 

[Gamesniper19]

If I am looking at the target correctly, these are 2 shots per load.

I normally run 3 shot groups in a ladder test to help determine if there is a flyer or not. With only 2, 1 could be good and one could be a flyer from the shooter or other factor, and you are left guessing.

Looks like the 81.5 is promising. Especially at 500!

Agree - usually run ladder tests at 500 to 550. Some guys will run them at 700 but IMO and IME, longer distance can sometimes add additional spread and accuracy variables that may lead to less noticeable and reliable nodes. At 500 it should be obvious and clear.

 

[fnlights]

If I am looking at the target correctly, these are 2 shots per load.

I normally run 3 shot groups in a ladder test to help determine if there is a flyer or not. With only 2, 1 could be good and one could be a flyer from the shooter or other factor, and you are left guessing.

Looks like the 81.5 is promising. Especially at 500!

I did like the 81.5 - but did not like the big jump to 82 - doesn't seem very stable.

 

[Chadp82]

I did like the 81.5 - but did not like the big jump to 82 - doesn't seem very stable.

I understand what you are saying. However you may want to revisit these with 3 or 4 shot groups.

For me 2 shot groups don't tell me much. If one is a flyer I don't have an indication which one it is or what happened.

I normally run a ladder with 3 shot groups. I will normally run 3 but may go to 4 as I am getting a load dialed in. We all have flyers from time to time for various reasons.

 

[Tidus56]

We all have flyers from time to time for various reasons.

My various reasons has a name…lol

 

[2buffalo]

I like the idea of testing the primers here - but not so much sending another 20+ rounds down the 30 Nosler barrel lol

100% agree that accuracy trumps barrel life - hence why I have not complained about it in this post. In the grand scheme of things, barrels are cheap

I must have misinterpreted your previous post.

You could shoot an OCW at 100 to verify your results. I don't see anything on that target that I would consider much of a node. If it were me I would try different components.

 

[Gamesniper19]

I understand what you are saying. However you may want to revisit these with 3 or 4 shot groups.

For me 2 shot groups don't tell me much. If one is a flyer I don't have an indication which one it is or what happened.

I normally run a ladder with 3 shot groups. I will normally run 3 but may go to 4 as I am getting a load dialed in. We all have flyers from time to time for various reasons.

I run ladders with a single load per...rather than 2 shot or 3 shot groups. The result should be a clear and obvious horizontal node in a charge family.
I will load up to 16 rounds with apx .3 grains difference per. For 30 N I ran
79
79.3
79.6
79.9
80.2
80.5
80.8
81.1
81.4
81.7
82
82.3
82.6
82.9
83.2 - began to see pressure
83.5 - sticky bolt and stopped

Accuracy node from 81.7 to 82.3 - I then load in the middle at 82.1 and begin group tests. Why middle, cause that is the sweet spot and gives my load .1 to .2 grain "powder measure variance" to ensure consistency. Then seating to fine tune and done. Generally get single digit SD's with this and extreme spreads under 15 which at 3014 fps is excellent variance.

 

[Chadp82]

I run ladders with a single load per...rather than 2 shot or 3 shot groups. The result should be a clear and obvious horizontal node in a charge family.
I will load up to 16 rounds with apx .3 grains difference per. For 30 N I ran
79
79.3
79.6
79.9
80.2
80.5
80.8
81.1
81.4
81.7
82
82.3
82.6
82.9
83.2 - began to see pressure
83.5 - sticky bolt and stopped

Accuracy node from 81.7 to 82.3 - I then load in the middle at 82.1 and begin group tests. Why middle, cause that is the sweet spot and gives my load .1 to .2 grain "powder measure variance" to ensure consistency. Then seating to fine tune and done. Generally get single digit SD's with this and extreme spreads under 15 which at 3014 fps is excellent variance.

Thanks for the insight. Never heard of that methodology before. Always good to learn something

 

[fnlights]

I run ladders with a single load per...rather than 2 shot or 3 shot groups. The result should be a clear and obvious horizontal node in a charge family.
I will load up to 16 rounds with apx .3 grains difference per. For 30 N I ran
79
79.3
79.6
79.9
80.2
80.5
80.8
81.1
81.4
81.7
82
82.3
82.6
82.9
83.2 - began to see pressure
83.5 - sticky bolt and stopped

Accuracy node from 81.7 to 82.3 - I then load in the middle at 82.1 and begin group tests. Why middle, cause that is the sweet spot and gives my load .1 to .2 grain "powder measure variance" to ensure consistency. Then seating to fine tune and done. Generally get single digit SD's with this and extreme spreads under 15 which at 3014 fps is excellent variance.

Not a bad approach - but what do you do if you think you pulled one?

at 82.1 group testing, do you just go right into seating depth? Then go back and revisit powder or something?

 

[Opa-lopa]

Velocity "nodes" are the result of insufficient sample size & change test-test. Plot a straight line thru your data (in Excel) & see where you are relative to load manual. You want to have the same change in velocity w/ change in charge weight as the load manual, and you want to know if your velocity is above or below the load manual.

 

[aschler]

I run ladders with a single load per...rather than 2 shot or 3 shot groups. The result should be a clear and obvious horizontal node in a charge family.
I will load up to 16 rounds with apx .3 grains difference per. For 30 N I ran
79
79.3
79.6
79.9
80.2
80.5
80.8
81.1
81.4
81.7
82
82.3
82.6
82.9
83.2 - began to see pressure
83.5 - sticky bolt and stopped

Accuracy node from 81.7 to 82.3 - I then load in the middle at 82.1 and begin group tests. Why middle, cause that is the sweet spot and gives my load .1 to .2 grain "powder measure variance" to ensure consistency. Then seating to fine tune and done. Generally get single digit SD's with this and extreme spreads under 15 which at 3014 fps is excellent variance.

I've ran into the problem a few times when I only did 1 shot per charge weight that I would get bad results that led me to look for nodes that didn't exist. My standard ladder now is 10 charge weights and 19 rounds total; it isn't enough data to completely eliminate the chance I will chase some bad data but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Gamesniper19]

Not a bad approach - but what do you do if you think you pulled one?

at 82.1 group testing, do you just go right into seating depth? Then go back and revisit powder or something?

Once I have the powder node, I am usually done with the charge portion. Then, I go to seating depth.

 

[fnlights]

So I only had time to try a few things today. I reshot with the CCI primers- 81.4, 81.8, 82.2, 82.6, 83, and 83.4 - they are the top dots above.

Due to time restrictions, I only had time to shoot one of each, but all the shots felt good.

I also loaded up some with Federal 215 primers and attached that above (81.4, 81.8, 82.2, 82.6, 83)

What are everyone's thoughts?