30-06 for long range

[RMulhern]

I usually use my .06 for brush hunting but my old win 70 could use upgrade to long range status with some work. That being said, just out of curiosity how far out does anyone here think the old war horse be good to for Elk. I don"t take chances i was figuring about 300 max with perfect conditions, but we all know that doesn't exist it can change in few seconds or minutes. Deer prob stretch it out there a bit more. So what ya think gentlemen looking for Honest opinion. Good day to all.

I've seen a 6 pt. bull elk take a solid hit in the left shoulder area stand on his feet for 5 minutes and then take one more from a 300 RUM with a well known hunting bullet before biting the dust! Range was 90 yards! Both bullets DID NOT fragment upon impact! Animals are TUFF!!

 

[WildRose]

I've seen a 6 pt. bull elk take a solid hit in the left shoulder area stand on his feet for 5 minutes and then take one more from a 300 RUM with a well known hunting bullet before biting the dust! Range was 90 yards! Both bullets DID NOT fragment upon impact! Animals are TUFF!!

Since there's no possible way the bullets were recovered from the animal at that range how exactly can one determine they didn't fragment?

Accepting the premise though, a bullet that punches straight through without expanding is of little more value than one that completely shells out on contact.

 

[RMulhern]

Since there's no possible way the bullets were recovered from the animal at that range how exactly can one determine they didn't fragment?

Accepting the premise though, a bullet that punches straight through without expanding is of little more value than one that completely shells out on contact.

Well I'll be kiss my red Irish arse! WildRose...I had no idea you were looking over my shoulder when we dressed that elk out! Oh...that's right...you weren't there when we recovered the two 'peeled back' 180 gr. slugs from just under the offside hide of that bull!! So I'll just have to 'accept the premise' that you made a statement that you don't have a clue about!lightbulb

 

[Mike 338]

Since there's no possible way the bullets were recovered from the animal at that range how exactly can one determine they didn't fragment?

I've seen bullets recovered from elk at that range and talked to plenty of others who have too. I've got one laying around somewhere. Elk are tough and the hide is about an inch thick at the neck. That hide makes a good catchers mitt.

I like heavy bullets for elk. I once used a 330 gr hard cast from a .444 that didn't exit but I didn't find it. I've never shot one at long range (over 250) but my advice is not to stop shooting until they're down and the horns are tipped over.

Many elk have fallen to an '.06 but I wouldn't consider it great long range medicine. That's O.K. Just get closer. I know a guy who tested some 30 cal. bullets in wet phone books and said the Bergers got the best penetration. I didn't expect that. No personal experience though.

 

[WildRose]

Well I'll be kiss my red Irish arse! WildRose...I had no idea you were looking over my shoulder when we dressed that elk out! Oh...that's right...you weren't there when we recovered the two 'peeled back' 180 gr. slugs from just under the offside hide of that bull!! So I'll just have to 'accept the premise' that you made a statement that you don't have a clue about!lightbulb

I can only go on the information you provided along with a good amount of knoledge and experience about what happens when things are hit at such close range and high velocity.

Had you initially stated they were "peeled back" I would not have been so quick to question. If they were peeled back as I've seen with Nosler Ballistic tips, I would have certainly not questioned it, but in such a case the bullet has fragmented a great deal with less than 50% weight retention in those I have recovered.

Exactly what make bullet where these?

 

[WildRose]

I've seen bullets recovered from elk at that range and talked to plenty of others who have too. I've got one laying around somewhere. Elk are tough and the hide is about an inch thick at the neck. That hide makes a good catchers mitt.

I like heavy bullets for elk. I once used a 330 gr hard cast from a .444 that didn't exit but I didn't find it. I've never shot one at long range (over 250) but my advice is not to stop shooting until they're down and the horns are tipped over.

Many elk have fallen to an '.06 but I wouldn't consider it great long range medicine. That's O.K. Just get closer. I know a guy who tested some 30 cal. bullets in wet phone books and said the Bergers got the best penetration. I didn't expect that. No personal experience though.

We're not talking about a soft cast bullet traveling sub 2500fps. We're not even talking about bullets fired from an 06.

We're talking about a 180gr that's running somewhere around 3000fps on impact that does not fragment and does not expand.

I've dressed Elk, I dressed monster hogs, and with that kind of velocity and energy I cannot fathom a bullet that does neither not passing completely through said animal.

Elk are tough animals, they are not however armor plated.

 

[RMulhern]

Exactly what make bullet where these?

I'm NOT going to post that! This company makes **** good and accurate bullets so I won't bad mouth them on here! I will say that they were bonded bullets!

 

[WildRose]

I'm NOT going to post that! This company makes **** good and accurate bullets so I won't bad mouth them on here! I will say that they were bonded bullets!

You aren't badmouthing the company by giving accurate information about bullet performance. Such details in fact are why many of us come here. Shared experience is worthless if you don't actuall share the details.

 

[Mike 338]

We're not talking about a soft cast bullet traveling sub 2500fps. We're not even talking about bullets fired from an 06.

We're talking about a 180gr that's running somewhere around 3000fps on impact that does not fragment and does not expand.

I've dressed Elk, I dressed monster hogs, and with that kind of velocity and energy I cannot fathom a bullet that does neither not passing completely through said animal.

Elk are tough animals, they are not however armor plated.

Yeah, the vast majority under 100 are pass through's but it still happens once in a while. I've seen recovered Winchester factory, Speer and Sierra's shot from .300 & .338 win mags shooting from 180 gr. to 225 gr. All were designed to mushroom except the "hard cast" 330 grainer (which I never found but didn't exit). I would agree that a non expanding bullet being found is rare to non existent. I've never recovered a Barnes but there are probably a few who have. They expand but differently.

Regarding elk hide, I use a Cold Steel Hunter as a skinner. Nothing special in fact kinda beat up. Anyway, I placed the point on the upper chest hide to see if I could pierce it. I put my torso on the hilt and lunged into it but couldn't pierce it with the point. It slices well enough though but that tough hide will snag a bullet once in a while. Also, don't get in a knife fight with an elk.

 

[Bart B]

Some food for though about the .30-06.

First off, any 30 caliber bullet striking game at the same entry angle at 1500 or 2000 fps will have identical performance regardless of the cartridge or rifle it was fired from. The only difference is how far the animal is from the muzzle. And any cartridge and barrel that shoots 30 caliber bullets out at the same speed as the '06 will equal it afield.

Second, the fall of the .30-06 from grace as "the" cartridge to use in competition when the .308 Win. took over in 1963 had nothing to do with the cartridge. It was the chamber's leade angle that was the problem. Originally it was 2.5 degrees and the .308's was 1.5 degrees; a big reason why the .308 Win. shot bullets more accurate from otherwise identical bore, groove and twist dimensions. SAAMI specs now list the .30-06 leade angle at 1 degree 22 minutes and the .308's at 1 degree 45 minutes.

 

[cowboy]

I've seen a 6 pt. bull elk take a solid hit in the left shoulder area stand on his feet for 5 minutes and then take one more from a 300 RUM with a well known hunting bullet before biting the dust! Range was 90 yards! Both bullets DID NOT fragment upon impact! Animals are TUFF!!

I'm sure glad these elk in Montana haven't started wearing kevlar yet. I've packed a couple hundred elk out and have never seen any that were that tough shot with a decent bullet.

The old '06 is very capable on elk out to 600 yds.. I've seen it done many times farther than that but the nut behind the bolt has to do his job.

 

[RMulhern]

cowboy

MOST don't wear kevlar but for every rule....there is the exception!!