I went to 165 and 180s years ago in my 06 and never looked back. I understand using what you have. When you run out of 150s give a heavier bullet a try with 4350 and I 'll bet you will be glad you did. Also if you do go with compressed loads get a Lee factory crimp die. They are cheap and you will never have to worry about bullet movement. Back your charge down a little and work back up as it can affect pressure a bit.
30-06 compressed loads
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I went to 165 and 180s years ago in my 06 and never looked back. I understand using what you have. When you run out of 150s give a heavier bullet a try with 4350 and I 'll bet you will be glad you did. Also if you do go with compressed loads get a Lee factory crimp die. They are cheap and you will never have to worry about bullet movement. Back your charge down a little and work back up as it can affect pressure a bit.
According to the Hornady manual you referenced.
In that Manual, using Hornady 150 gr SSTs at a col of 3.210" as shown over 61.6 gr H4350 will only produce 2950 fps, and according to QuickLOAD, it is a 13.5% compressed load . (QuickLOAD also shows 3110 fps at that length with pressure at 68,191 psi).
In that Manual, reducing that load to 58.1 gr of H4350 to give a velocity in the range of 2800 fps is still a 7.0% compressed load at 55,695 psi (ref QuickLOAD which shows a higher velocity of 2930 fps)
At a 30-06 standard col of 3.340" with that H4350 charge of 61.6 gr, it is a 9.8% compressed load (ref QuickLOAD which shows 3046 fps at that length ,pressure is 61,988 psi)
At a 30-06 standard col of 3.340" with a charge of 58.1 gr of H4350 it is a 2.9% compressed load at 2871 fps and 51120 psi. More acceptable but still a compressed load.
Increasing the col can lessen the compression and pressure but if the bullets have a cannelure, you probably won't be able to crimp the case mouth into the cannelure groove.
No offense, but to me, compressed charges are not worth the risk ! I know seasons are here and supplies are short in components and loaded ammo , but I certainly would go for what I consider a safer route when it involves a family member or friend.
In that Manual, using Hornady 150 gr SSTs at a col of 3.210" as shown over 61.6 gr H4350 will only produce 2950 fps, and according to QuickLOAD, it is a 13.5% compressed load . (QuickLOAD also shows 3110 fps at that length with pressure at 68,191 psi).
In that Manual, reducing that load to 58.1 gr of H4350 to give a velocity in the range of 2800 fps is still a 7.0% compressed load at 55,695 psi (ref QuickLOAD which shows a higher velocity of 2930 fps)
At a 30-06 standard col of 3.340" with that H4350 charge of 61.6 gr, it is a 9.8% compressed load (ref QuickLOAD which shows 3046 fps at that length ,pressure is 61,988 psi)
At a 30-06 standard col of 3.340" with a charge of 58.1 gr of H4350 it is a 2.9% compressed load at 2871 fps and 51120 psi. More acceptable but still a compressed load.
Increasing the col can lessen the compression and pressure but if the bullets have a cannelure, you probably won't be able to crimp the case mouth into the cannelure groove.
No offense, but to me, compressed charges are not worth the risk ! I know seasons are here and supplies are short in components and loaded ammo , but I certainly would go for what I consider a safer route when it involves a family member or friend.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Quick load means very little in the real world, why are you quoting it against ACTUAL pressure tested loads @ jdyoung?
I have a pressure trace, and yes, I HAD quick load, not ONCE did the ACTUAL pressure match QL. To get it to match took so much fiddling, I gave up and moved it on.
QL is nothing more than a PREDICTIVE PROGRAM at best.
Compressing powder with NORMAL loads does not increase pressure.
Cheers.
I have a pressure trace, and yes, I HAD quick load, not ONCE did the ACTUAL pressure match QL. To get it to match took so much fiddling, I gave up and moved it on.
QL is nothing more than a PREDICTIVE PROGRAM at best.
Compressing powder with NORMAL loads does not increase pressure.
Cheers.
QuickLoad is like every other software in the world. If you put garbage in, you will get garbage out. If you bother to understand how it works, and use quality data, it can help you save time, money and supplies. QuickLoad will NOT replace your time on the range and load development. But I will help get there faster. There are a lot of people who used it successfully. There are a few that have not. Very few, and very vocal. It doesn't work for you, No Problem! Don't use it! Don't discourage everyone because you couldn't get it to work!
Safe Shooting everyone!!!!
Safe Shooting everyone!!!!
'Cause it's the closest I have to a pressure testing apparatus. It has served me well !
Also, the manual quoted/used doesn't show actual pressure that I saw. just the charge wgt. in red under the approximate velocity. While it does reference going to Hornady. com. ballistics. in fine print.
But sometimes using powder you have instead of finding the powder that works better can hold you back I tried 4 30-06 loads today in the rain and the powder and bulletI was already using was the best.a friend gave me this load to try about 90 days ago and It works
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
It doesn't need to quote pressure, they leave that info in their records for a reason.
If the cartridge used has a theoretical max pressure of 65,000psi, but the listed max charge has an AVERAGE of 59,600psi, there are fools out there that think they can add another grain of powder and be right on max. There's a reason why they DIDN'T go higher in powder weight, that one grain increase could go beyond 70,000psi, you don't know that and neither does QL.
For instance, that program doesn't even take into account the type of primer being used. Over the Pressure Trace, swapping from a standard to a magnum primer increases pressure by 8,000-10,000psi.
You can keep believing QL is accurate, it certainly is not.
Garbage in...garbage out.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
If this is aimed at me, then you are very mistaken.
For it's purpose of finding a safe START LOAD, I got it to work as intended, it even helped getting my wildcats up and running with suitable powders for which there is NO DATA ANYWHERE FOR.
My 338-416 Rigby Improved is a perfect example. No data exists, BUT, using QL for it also had issues because no amount of tweaking would match the ACTUAL velocity the rifle was getting. When I got the Pressure Trace, even with QL predicted pressure, it was no where near max. It was running 10,000-15,000psi under max even though QL said most loads were at or above max.
All parameter inputs were to the tenth decimal, so no mistakes could be made.
Volume was measured in tenths of CC's, grains of water and grains of kerosene, no output matched the real world.
So, yes, I know how to use QL, it just isn't accurate enough for me, you can believe it's output, but I would bet that the real world outcome would be far different if ACTUALLY tested.
Also, I have no intention of discouraging it's use for getting start loads and working up, but when people start quoting what QL says against a published load from a manual and stating that compressed loads are dangerous, then I am going to react because it is FALSE INFORMATION.
Magnum
What you are saying about listing makes perfect sense. I just checked Nosler, Lyman and Hodgdon. Nosler lists no pressures, Lyman is hit and miss depending on caliber. Hodgdon, I only checked 30.06 and 300 WBY, various loads. They list them for those two. Alliant and Vihtavuori do not!
What you are saying about listing makes perfect sense. I just checked Nosler, Lyman and Hodgdon. Nosler lists no pressures, Lyman is hit and miss depending on caliber. Hodgdon, I only checked 30.06 and 300 WBY, various loads. They list them for those two. Alliant and Vihtavuori do not!
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I don't remember to whom I was directing it. My problem here has been that everyone thinks that just because some of us suggest using QL, we eliminate using powder development/shooting. Couldn't be further from the truth. Its the starting point I get with it. NOT the final point! That I get the traditional load/shoot/adjust/load/shoot...in continuous improvement its called PDCA. Plan, do, check adjust....until you get there
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Ward Thurman
Well-Known Member
bstomper
Well-Known Member
Thats a full load
Stammster
Well-Known Member
51-52 gr IMR-4064 and 150 gr bullets in the 30-06 go together like peas and carrots.
Definitely not compressed, kills like lightning, and accurate.
Not a long range load, but will definitely work for sub 400 yard work.
Definitely not compressed, kills like lightning, and accurate.
Not a long range load, but will definitely work for sub 400 yard work.
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