280ai vs 7mm rem mag?

[gohring3006]

Yea, I wouldn't see the need to fireform brass to 280 AI. But even if I have factory brass, it's pretty much worthless to me until I fireform to my particular chamber a few times with neck sizing only. Then I set up for .002" shoulder bump. Then.... I really start burning my barrel out.
I guess what I'm sayin, fireforming and "wasting" my barrel is factored into my process, even with factory chamberings.

 

[MagMan]

I don't like to trim. That is why I Ackley.

 

[TOM H]

Since we r discussing the 280ai which brass is available for and is no longer a wildcat...not sure how most of what u wrote applies? It's really not any different than buying a 28 nosler.

Nosler has brass for spec 280AI and that's what I use for my 280AI. You can neck it down for 6.5x280AI or up for 30x280AI which I did.

 

[FEENIX]

Well AI cartridges are so 1950's! LOL I am sure everyone has seen the movie with Jim Carrey "Dumb and Dumber". I always pictured the two main characters from that movie owning an entire collection of AI chambered rifles! Why because nothing is more wasteful than the fire forming process. It eats into barrel life which should be a punishable offense maybe a misdemeanor. LOL In my mind the only reason to do an AI cartridge is just because you want too! Which doing it just because you want to is fine I have no issues with that just as long as people do not try to pass it off as the best option or most logical option in 2018.

There might have been a time when their was some economy in taking a standard cartridge and hot rodding it but those days are gone. The price for 7mm Rem Mag brass and 280 Rem brass are with in $1-$2 of each other for a box/bag of 50. So unless you sitting on a mother load of surplus brass it makes no sense to do the 280AI over just going 7mm Magnum if all you want it velocity with a heavy 7mm projectile. Their is a reason why we have so many cartridges based off of the 30-06 and 7.62 NATO and 308 Win! Can you say surplus brass and powder at one time that was insanely cheap!



If you just want something different you might consider a 6.5-06 I used one in F-Class for a while. If you do not care about barrel life it is a sweet cartridge. A-Square made it an official Cartridge so you can get brass with 6.5-06 head stamp if you wanted to take it hunting outside of the USA.

Obviously the above is opinion not gospel cast in stone! When it comes to putting meat on the table I am rather frugal when comes to competing I am not. I cannot see spending a lot of money just to put meat in the freezer. When it comes to keeping the freezer full my $149 Single Shot H&R/NEF rifled slug gun, Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag with 32" vent rib and Ruger 10/22 prob. do 85% of the heavy lifting. The rest is rounded out with what ever centerfire rifle I happen to grab that day.

We know that if you exclude Kodiac Bears you can really kill anything in North America or Europe with cartridges like the .308 Win, 260 Rem, 7.62x39, 7x57 Mauser,30-30, 30-06, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 7mm/08, 25-06, 45-70, 8mm Mauser, British 303, 7,62X54, 12ga slug all day long. So anything in excess of these common chamberings is all about novelty, fun and excess! So which exotic chambering makes your pulse race and your face blush?? Which ever one it is that is the girl you should build!

Cheers!

• .280 Remington Ackley Improved, an improved version of the .280 Remington cartridge with 40 degree shoulder, dies readily available. It duplicates the ballistics of the vaunted 7mm Remington Mag, with 30% less propellant used and less barrel erosion. Registered with SAAMI by Nosler.
• 
  
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackle

I have a .270 AI but don't fire-form, I have an accuracy load for .270 Win (2916 FPS with 175 Matrix VLD) and .270 AI (2996 FPS with 175 Matrix VLD). In my .30 LARA, I do hydraulic forming ...


Exotic, novelty, improved, or not, let's not forget this still "long range hunting" site ... just saying.

 

[TOM H]

I forgot that Hornady has loading data for 280AI and used Hornady case and they sell ammo?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...280-ackley-improved-162-grain-eld-x-box-of-20

 

[littlewhaler]

I hunt western states and seldom have flat shots. Usually an elevation rise or drop of 100-500'. With this you usually have wind, sometimes 15-20mph. Maybe rain/snow blowing. In bad conditions and terrain a 800 yd shot is not for me. I shoot/practice a lot to be confident at 400 yds but tuff conditions will bring that down. For elk I shoot my 300 wsm 180 accubond and my 7rm is back up in case I bang up the 300 wsm on the hunt. For mule deer I use the 280 AI 150 gr accubond with the 7 rm as back up. For antelope I use my 25-06 with 115 accubond and 280AI is back up with 140 gr bullet. The 7rm and 300 wsm seem very equall to me on elk size animals when using the 180 gr accubond. For mule deer my 280 AI and 7 rm are very close for mule deer and black bear using 150 gr accubond. On antelope the 25-06 and 280 AI are pretty close when shooting a 140 gr bullet in 280 AI. Each of these cartridges will take elk size animals effectively but I like the heavier hit on elk with a 300 wsm or 7rm shooting the 180 accubond vs 280AI. For mule deer the 280 AI is perfect for me and the 7rm is more than enough. For antelope the 25-06 is perfect for me and the 280 AI is more than enough.

 

[WildRose]

Ok how close in ballistics and energy are these two rifles with the same weight of bullet? Thinking of maybe a 280ai when my 270 needs a new barrel. How would the 280ai be for moose and elk and deer?

In the real world there's not enough difference to matter much. With either you can easily exceed that magic number of 2850 FPS and with the right bullet/load combo head north of 3200fps for varmint hunting where flat shooting makes a big difference.

Without pushing it hard they run within 200fps of one another so unless you're fixated on running as hard and fast as possible it just doesn't matter all that much.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well AI cartridges are so 1950's! LOL I am sure everyone has seen the movie with Jim Carrey "Dumb and Dumber". I always pictured the two main characters from that movie owning an entire collection of AI chambered rifles! Why because nothing is more wasteful than the fire forming process. It eats into barrel life which should be a punishable offense maybe a misdemeanor. LOL In my mind the only reason to do an AI cartridge is just because you want too! Which doing it just because you want to is fine I have no issues with that just as long as people do not try to pass it off as the best option or most logical option in 2018.

There might have been a time when their was some economy in taking a standard cartridge and hot rodding it but those days are gone. The price for 7mm Rem Mag brass and 280 Rem brass are with in $1-$2 of each other for a box/bag of 50. So unless you sitting on a mother load of surplus brass it makes no sense to do the 280AI over just going 7mm Magnum if all you want it velocity with a heavy 7mm projectile. Their is a reason why we have so many cartridges based off of the 30-06 and 7.62 NATO and 308 Win! Can you say surplus brass and powder at one time that was insanely cheap!



If you just want something different you might consider a 6.5-06 I used one in F-Class for a while. If you do not care about barrel life it is a sweet cartridge. A-Square made it an official Cartridge so you can get brass with 6.5-06 head stamp if you wanted to take it hunting outside of the USA.

Obviously the above is opinion not gospel cast in stone! When it comes to putting meat on the table I am rather frugal when comes to competing I am not. I cannot see spending a lot of money just to put meat in the freezer. When it comes to keeping the freezer full my $149 Single Shot H&R/NEF rifled slug gun, Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag with 32" vent rib and Ruger 10/22 prob. do 85% of the heavy lifting. The rest is rounded out with what ever centerfire rifle I happen to grab that day.

We know that if you exclude Kodiac Bears you can really kill anything in North America or Europe with cartridges like the .308 Win, 260 Rem, 7.62x39, 7x57 Mauser,30-30, 30-06, 270 Win, 280 Rem, 7mm/08, 25-06, 45-70, 8mm Mauser, British 303, 7,62X54, 12ga slug all day long. So anything in excess of these common chamberings is all about novelty, fun and excess! So which exotic chambering makes your pulse race and your face blush?? Which ever one it is that is the girl you should build!

Cheers!

• .280 Remington Ackley Improved, an improved version of the .280 Remington cartridge with 40 degree shoulder, dies readily available. It duplicates the ballistics of the vaunted 7mm Remington Mag, with 30% less propellant used and less barrel erosion. Registered with SAAMI by Nosler.
• 
  
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackle

Man, you're response is so 1950's... High-tapered & low shoulder angles for positive extraction, despite most dangerous game cartridges have had a belt for over 100 years for that exact reason, despite most being nearly straight-walled, and not knowing that combustion science has proven that greater shoulder angles have better combustion for increased velocities, longer dwell times for more complete combustion, lower flame angles for better throat life, and less taper proves to grab the chamber walls better to reduce lug pressures, which will increase action life and brass life, and reduce brass growth for less, if any, trimming through the life of your cases...

But I guess they don't teach that in 1950...

 

[Doug Herold]

Well first Elk are not hard to drop I have used 25-06, 308, 300 Win Mag, 12ga. Slug and 30-06 to drop Elk. Lung shots have never failed me on Elk. The trick with Elk is being patient and being willing to stalk until you get the shot you want. I have no real experience with Moose myself but have seen plenty of them killed. With the Moose every time it was a matter of a rampaging Moose not someone out stalking one on a hunt. That meant close in fast movement and terrible angles in terms of trying to get a good shot. So I will let someone else with actual hunting experience with a Moose answer that. That said they did not go down easy like an Elk.

I do not know if I would go the AI route on a hunting rifle how many rounds do you want to put through it just fire forming brass? In my mind, a hunting rifle should give you a lifetime of accurate use, unlike a competition rig where you expect to regularly wear out barrels.

The 280 is basically a 7mm-06 if that helps you think about the cartridges potential. Conceptually think of the 7mm Rem Mag as a .338 Win Mag necked down to 7mm. Are you getting an idea know what each one brings tot he table in terms bolt face, cartridge length and diameter, powder capacity, overall length etc???? Put another way it would be like comparing the 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag, in this case, make neck them both down and drop a 7mm on top. On Paper it looks like a huge difference but on game, it is not much difference at all. Obviously, the case with the most powder is going to spit the bullet out at higher velocity which makes for a flatter trajectory.

You have to know how far away you plan to shoot. You need to pick a bullet that will both expand and hold together at the speed it will be going when it hits the animal. This is going to be a big deal between these two. Personally, I do not like to shoot at game more than 600m away if I can help it. You might feel confident taking a 800m shot my brother in law might take a 900m shot. Ideally, you would want to use a bullet that matches the cartridge and the range you intend to hunt.

Are you a recoil sensitive shooter? I am 6 foot 1 and look like I played football for the NFL! I can put 60 Magnum rounds down range from a bench and not even have a bruise. If that is not you though less recoil makes it far easier to take precision shots. Dreading the recoil never helps anyone shoot straight!

When I am hunting Elk I am horse back some guys like quads. If I had to walk the entire time I would want to have a fairly light rifle. My 280 is just that. It is 1.25 at the receiver for maybe 2-3 inches then it tapers down to .630 at the muzzle. If I had to walk all day up and down steep terrain that is what I want with me. The stock is a fairly light Richards Microfit in Tiger Maple. All of my magnums have much heavier barrels and the stock's tend to be beefier and my optics are beefier. Just depends on if you have a beast of burden carrying your dead weight or if you are carrying it!

Last but not least what stage of life are you in? Are you still new to magnums and like all things faster and heavier or are you old enough to be past that stage? If you want a magnum get a magnum so you have no regrets! If you do not need a magnum and do not want to put up with the quirks of a magnum get the 280!

Either way do what is going to make you happiest with your purchase because either will work just fine. Never over think your purchases unless you are on a tight budget and have to look far down the road. Too many people let other people talk them into buying something they do not need or want and they regret it later!

Oh and if you do intend to hunt in Africa any rifle you take has to be able to shoot ammunition that has the correct headstamp on the brass. You also need to be able to purchase factory ammo in that country. Something like a 280AI would not be doable in some countries at all. It is harder to bring ammo with you traveling than it is to bring your rifle. So well established SAE and MEtric cartridges are fine but Wildcats normaly a no-no each country is different!

Excellent analysis

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We do a lot of wildcat cartridges. I guess I don't see much of a problem with forming brass when using the COW method. That is beside the point since the op asked about a 280ai that has formed headstamped brass readily available. The way I see it the 280ai is the most snort you can get in a standard non magnum bolt face in a factory chamber without doing a wildcat.

ps
An extra 100-200fps is exactly why doing an ai is well worth it. Along with the reasons that Mud listed. That gain in speed is an extra 100 or 200y in effective range.

Steve

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

We do a lot of wildcat cartridges. I guess I don't see much of a problem with forming brass when using the COW method. That is beside the point since the op asked about a 280ai that has formed headstamped brass readily available. The way I see it the 280ai is the most snort you can get in a standard non magnum bolt face in a factory chamber without doing a wildcat.

ps
An extra 100-200fps is exactly why doing an ai is well worth it. Along with the reasons that Mud listed. That gain in speed is an extra 100 or 200y in effective range.

Steve

NOPE THE 100-200fps IS NOTHING HUGE AND DOESNT MATTER IT DOES NOT HELP ONE BIT!!!!! LMMFAO!!!!

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

I can guarantee you that a 280 A.I. is better than 2920 with a 162 out of MOST barrels! Not discounting that's what yours does......rich
For the record, the Sherman will run a 180 Berger at 3050' all day long without destroying cases.

IM GONNA NEED A REAMER AND A SET OF DIES

 

[MudRunner2005]

IM GONNA NEED A REAMER AND A SET OF DIES

I guarantee you that Rich will be more than happy to sell you a set.

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

GUARANTEE IT HUH??? can I just borrow yours??