.277 Ruger wildcat

[diriel]

Hello LRH,

I have been wanting / needing to re-barrel my Savage 111 currently chambered in 6.5x55 BJAI. I have just not been able to make up my mind until Berger Bullets about broke my arm with their announcement of the 170 gr. .277 EOL hunting hybrids!

I got to playing with JBM checking out the 7mm Vs. the .277, then added in 6.5, 6, and even .30. Long story short, for a hunting / range rifle that 170 gr. .277 bullet is very convincing! Recoil should be reasonable given the bullet weight.

Ok so: 375 Ruger - parent case

-- Case Length of Approximately 2.41
-- Neck Length of Approximately .36
-- Shoulder Angle of 30*

Now, I do not have the 170 gr. bullet diagram or bullet measurements So take the above with a grain or so... The intent is to allow 3.340 C.O.A.L using a .277" 170 gr. Berger Hybrid EOL seated so that the boat tail is protruding somewhat into the shoulder area of the case, but the beginning of the bullet shank will be just ahead of the neck / shoulder junction so as to avoid Doughnut problems.

Playing with JBM, *IF* I can get an honest 2850 fps. out of this combination it should carry 2000 fps and 1500 ft.lbs. out to 700 yards. That is a pretty good Thump!

I went with the Ruger Mag case because I like the non rebated, clean design of it.

Thoughts and opinions?
Gary

 

[bigngreen]

Your selling yourself way short on velocity!!!!! I run the 175 Matrix at 3014fps in my WSM and the Ruger case has more engine room.

 

[grit]

Your selling yourself way short on velocity!!!!! I run the 175 Matrix at 3014fps in my WSM and the Ruger case has more engine room.

I agree. The case will easily push the 189's to 3000 in the 7mm version.

I think it'd be a hammer. Barrel life would be a bit skimpy for my taste. I wouldn't count on seeing the new 270's anytime soon iether.

 

[AZShooter]

I believe you will end up with a very short neck if you simply neck down the 375 Ruger. I discussed this with a tech at Hornady regarding a 7mm version. The 270 would have similar issues. This is why
Gunwerks made their 7 LRM version which moves the shoulder creating a longer neck. Otherwise this should be an interesting build with great downrange performance.

 

[durak]

Hello LRH,

I have been wanting / needing to re-barrel my Savage 111 currently chambered in 6.5x55 BJAI. I have just not been able to make up my mind until Berger Bullets about broke my arm with their announcement of the 170 gr. .277 EOL hunting hybrids!

I got to playing with JBM checking out the 7mm Vs. the .277, then added in 6.5, 6, and even .30. Long story short, for a hunting / range rifle that 170 gr. .277 bullet is very convincing! Recoil should be reasonable given the bullet weight.

Ok so: 375 Ruger - parent case

-- Case Length of Approximately 2.41
-- Neck Length of Approximately .36
-- Shoulder Angle of 30*

Now, I do not have the 170 gr. bullet diagram or bullet measurements So take the above with a grain or so... The intent is to allow 3.340 C.O.A.L using a .277" 170 gr. Berger Hybrid EOL seated so that the boat tail is protruding somewhat into the shoulder area of the case, but the beginning of the bullet shank will be just ahead of the neck / shoulder junction so as to avoid Doughnut problems.

Playing with JBM, *IF* I can get an honest 2850 fps. out of this combination it should carry 2000 fps and 1500 ft.lbs. out to 700 yards. That is a pretty good Thump!

I went with the Ruger Mag case because I like the non rebated, clean design of it.

Thoughts and opinions?
Gary

If 2000 fps and 1500 ftlbs at 700 is all you're looking for look at the 30-375 Ruger with the 185, 190, 200, 210, or 230 Berger will get you there. Example:

230gr Berger Hyb @2600 fps @ 700 yards = 1930 fps and 1902 Ft lbs.

For less recoil:

185gr Berger @ 3100 fps @ 700 yards = 2118 fps and 1842 ft lbs

Now both of those combos would be much more of a "Thump" at 700 yards. Just a thought.....

 

[270 lefty]

I am looking forward to see the .277 170 berger also I am currently using 169.5 wildcats & have some 165 matrix also both have great bc's I am sure the 170 bergers will be comparable. I think your 2000 fps &1500 lbs would be closer @ 1000 I am @ 2046 fps & 1571 lbs @ 1000 with a 7mm dakota parent case necked down 70grains of retumbo 169.5 wildcat
make sure you go with a 9 twist or slightly faster with the 170 grainers
I think berger announced April of this year was there goal we'll see?

 

[diriel]

I had not thought about the Matrix bullets, thank you for bringing that up. Anyone have any measurements on a 165 / 175 Matrix .277?

As for the modest FPS and Ft.Lbs I was really just "worst case" thinking so I could compare things in JBM and still have numbers that would push me one way or the other.

I had a 300WM for several years and shot the 208 / 210s out of it. I like to shoot a fair bit, and by about the 40 to 50 rounds down range mark those 200gr.+ pills were beginning to take a toll. I would like to have just a tad bit less recoil. I have considered a brake, and that idea is still very much on the table.

All in all it seems like with these new super bullets the .277 cal. really has a nice overall balance to offer up for shooters. Not saying it is magic snake oil.. It would be Really Nice to retain 2000 Fps and 1000 Ft.Lbs + out to 1k or just a bit farther. The remaining energy seems easily there, just the Fps to ensure proper bullet expansion etc.

Fun with numbers... *IF* I maintain my 3.340" COAL limitation then the base of the 1.52" bullet would be at 1.82" from the head of the case. Ouch Conversely the .270 WSM neck / shoulder junction is located at 1.824, and the actual shoulder / case body junction at 1.664. Now the listed OAL is only 2.860 Vs. a standard LA of 3.340. So, if I take 1.82 as the base of the bullet, then add in the length of the boat tail, I get the location of the Bullet Shank / Neck Shoulder Junction. From there I can decide on how much Neck Length I want, and come up with a OAL Brass Length. For kicks, the 270 Win has a neck length of .384.

-- So, 1.82" + Approximately .23"-ish boat tail length = 2.05" Neck / shoulder junction.
-- 2.05" + .384" = 2.434" OAL brass length.
The problem at the moment is I have too many assumptions and not enough hard numbers bullet wise.

It would be nice to be able to load to COAL and have a 170 gr. Hybrid about .015 off the lands and not worry about possible doughnut problems I know that is being kinda lazy... but the main focus is Hunting .. Less Problems by design = a good thing.

Now for a more esoteric consideration. Does anyone know for sure what the throat leade angle on the old M96 Swede's were? I Think it is .5*, but am having a hard time pinning that down. I love how my original M96 was so easy to tune loads for. I figure those Swede's must have known something when they chose the setup they did.

The extra case capacity should give a bit of a velocity boost which will be nice. I have 24 Lbs. of H1000 sitting here waiting for a Party to Go-To Most important to me is an over all elegant design that just happens to be a Hammer!

Thoughts and Information are more than welcome,
Gary

 

[270 lefty]

I had not thought about the Matrix bullets, thank you for bringing that up. Anyone have any measurements on a 165 / 175 Matrix .277?

THE 165 MATRIX IN MY COMPARITER .757 OF COARSE THE OVERALL LENTH VARIES WITH UN TRIMMED MEPLAT THE BULLET IM USING MEASURES 1.429

THE WILDCAT 169.5 IN COMPARITER IS .850 THE OVER ALL IS 1.465 WITH UNTRIMMED MEPLAT
OGIVE ON THE MATRIX IS LESS STEEP THAN THE WILDCAT NOT SURE ON THE * OF EACH

 

[diriel]

Thank you sir, this helps. gun)

Gary

 

[bigngreen]

The 175 is 1.50 long with a .818 bearing surface, roughly as I only have one half of a comparator which leaves me doing math

They are roughly nearly the same length as it looks like the 170 Berger will be, the Matrix is built with the J4 jacket so it could be the same jackets on both, I think some have tried to push the Matrix in 270 AM's and they did not fair well. A guy may be pushing it to push any of these bullets over about 3200 fps in a 1-8 twist. Twist rate will have to be respected I think if your running these at the top end, for my elevation I can run them in a 1-10 which will slack up on the bullet jacket, sounds like the EOL guys are using a different kind of rifling or something to elevate this issue so they must have seen some issues as well. At my elevation on a cold day the 175 Matrix runs a 1.4 stability factor with a 1-10 and with a 1-9 I have 1.8 stability factor. I checked at 0 elevation I got 1.4 stability with a 1-9. Sorry if it looks like I'm thinking out loud, I've been working on a similar project to push these bullets up to 3250-3300 fps, without blowing them up once the barrel get a few hundred rounds down itlightbulb

 

[diriel]

Good to hear from people who are already pushing these long and heavy for calibre bullets. I wonder how an 8 twist 7 groove bartlien barrel would fare...

Gary

 

[Blackelk82]

I have a 30" Pac Nor 1in8" twist chambered in a 270 Win. It didn't like the 165gr Matrix or the Nosler 150gr Accubond LR. It shoots .5 MOA with Berger 150gr VLD. I just tested the new 170gr EOL from Berger and it's amazing. I loaded 56gr of H4831, it avgeraged 2940fps with no pressure signs. It shoots under .5 MOA and that was to 650yards. I will test this at longer ranges soon. But so far I'm beyond sold on this bullet and rifle setup. And that's just a 270 win case folks.

 

[elkaholic]

If you are re barreling a Savage 111, the 270 Sherman will push a 170 Berger at 3000+ with a 26" barrel and has the same .473 case head size that you already have. ....Rich

 

[Blackelk82]

Sounds very impressive elkaholic. I looked at a lot of wildcats but never came across the Sherman. I decided to see what I could get done with a regular 270 win case. I have been reading the posts on the Sherman now looks bonafide for sure. I originally though of doing a 270-300WM but decided to wait. The rifle I built was something I've always wanted do since I was a kid and never had the money to do so. I know I'm a little late in the game to what is being experimented now but I'm very happy with the results so far. This one I'll keep.

What would be your opinion on building a 270 STW?