270 Sherman

[elkaholic]

It looks like your going to comfortably run the 165 Matrix with your 22in barrel and the Sherman case about as fast as we run the 165 from a straight win with a 26in barrel humping it. That's fairly good ballistic performance when you think about it!!!

+1 on that!

 

[4bycamper]

So far my loads have been pretty conservative. All were with the Matrix 165g and an OAL of 3.51" and a whopping 22" long barrel in 270 Sherman!

The 7828ssc 60g load shows about 2800fps. It does show some sign that the top is near. It shot 5 into just shy of an inch(just cleaned-.993").

The RL22 loads were continuing to gain speed but the hottest one at 59.5 grains showed 2715fps and no pressure. They did all shoot good and I loaded 5 rounds from 56g to 59.5 g and they all went into a group under an inch(.753").

The N560 loads showed some promise also but were low pressure and the hottest I loaded 56g was up to 2645fps. They also shot pretty well with 3 making a small group(.693") and the fourth of 4 being about an inch out.

Magpro again was fairly low pressure and was loaded from 58-62 grains. By this time I was getting cold and either wasn't shooting as well or the rifle doesn't like magpro but it threw one out about 1 1/4", two in close and the other two above a bit and spread out(1.217")

I would have liked to have seen some more speed at this point but it is obvious I underestimated the powder charges needed. Also, this was with BR2 primers and in cold temperatures. I may try some Magnum primers with the Magpro and increase top pressure loads until I find a stopping point. Right now none of the loads are HOT yet.

It was nice to see that the rifle will shoot a wide range of powder weight to a similar point of impact. The groups stating with the lower pressure loads moved up on the target with the higher pressure loads just as they should.

You could try some faster powder.
Some H 4831, RL 19 or Ramshot Hunter may work well for you.
I use Magpro and it really wants a longer barrel, like RL 25.
( There is a 26" on my 7 saum, 74 gr. capacity. )

 

[CogburnR]

I am planning on trying more powders as time goes on, also I will be forming up some Winchester brass shortly.

Vihtavouri N560 may be good when I find some pressure with it.

H4831sc, RL19, RL17, Hybrid 100v, 3100 are all up to be tested.

This is an interesting burn rate chart...

 

[FEENIX]

I agree with BNG!

I was getting 100+ FPS more using H4831SC over H1000 with the same amount of powder while fire-forming for my .270 AI.

160 FPS on 165 Matrix and 118 FPS on 175 Matrix (see http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f22/my-budget-270-ai-97745/index2.html #10).

Good luck!

Ed

 

[4bycamper]

Nice chart Cogburn!

Where did you find it?

Now I know why I like Varget so much...it's almost all by itself out there.
I'll have to try some 4320 to find out it's Vargetness.

 

[CogburnR]

The chart came from Lapua. The one above is actually an older image from the web. This one has a few more powders like RL17,

http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

This target analyzer is cool also:

On Target Download

I loaded some more rounds, including some H4831sc. It is going to be crappy here for a couple days so I doubt I will do much if any range work.

 

[CogburnR]

I formed up some more...these are Winchester brass.

I checked and they hold 75.5g of water.

Does anyone have QuickLoad and can run this case? I am thinking about buying Quick Load. I would like to see how it works.

130g Classic Hunters, 150g Berger VLD's and 165g Matrix VLD's are what I shoot.

 

[elkaholic]

I formed up some more...these are Winchester brass.

I checked and they hold 75.5g of water.

Does anyone have QuickLoad and can run this case? I am thinking about buying Quick Load. I would like to see how it works.

130g Classic Hunters, 150g Berger VLD's and 165g Matrix VLD's are what I shoot.

Lookin good Bruce. You can load approx. 1 grain more in the WW cases to make up the capacity difference......Rich

 

[CogburnR]

I went out shooting today as it warmed up a little finally.

I have finally found some pressure with Magpro at 64.5g and 2892fps with the 165 Matrix! Primers are flattening and one showed an ejector mark. So far this is the only pressure I have found.

I am close with 61.5g RL22 and it is showing 2818fps with a couple grains maybe left. I think it start showing pressure signs at around 2880 or so.

H4831sc has a ways to go with 59g showing 2737fps and no pressure yet, I think it will top out around 2800+ and 61-62g.

The rifle showed it liked 58g N560 at 2770 fps with 3 going into a 2 hole cluster and the 58.5g load a wee bit lower(4 shots .389"). 59.5g went 2812fps and is not showing pressure yet. I am hoping for an accuracy load around 61.5g and 2840fps. I also am hoping to find some more N560 as I am out and can't find any.

I picked up some Winchester WXR which is supposed to me the same powder as RL22 and Norma MRP, it was 17$ a pound so why not?! I will be using some of that soon also.

Anyway, looking at data it appears that the 270 Sherman is very, very similar in performance and loading to a 280 AI. The case holds 4-5g more powder and the smaller bullet diameter equals it out pretty much.

 

[elkaholic]

Bruce......it looks like our 3000+ estimate with a 26" barrel is probably right on. I would for sure try some retumbo and maybe some RL25. You should get top velocity with Retumbo and good es as well.......Rich

 

[CogburnR]

I went out and shot a few more today.

I loaded a few for pressure testing with RL-22 I figured that the top would be around 63.5g with RL-22 and the 165g Matrix. At 63g I got a light ejector mark and 2949fps.

I also loaded some 150g Bergers with 63g of RL-22 and they came up with 2984fps average for 3 shots.

I loaded some 130g Bergers with 65g RL-22 and the velocity averaged 3105fps for 3 shots.

Then I went to 430 yards and banged the gong with it. NW wind at 15-20mph about a 60 degree crosswind I dialed up 7moa and 1.5moa right and proceeded to bang the heck out of the gong! 62g of RL-22 with the 165g Matrix at 2870fps or so.

I also shot my 6.5-284 and found out the scope was 3moa off from hunting season. Banged the gong with that a few times and let my buddy do it. He smacked the 12" gong 2 out of 3 and has never shot much and never at 1/4mile. This summer maybe I can get him out shooting further.

Fun day, can't wait for it to get nicer than 48 degrees and 15-20mph winds.

 

[elkaholic]

I went out and shot a few more today.

I loaded a few for pressure testing with RL-22 I figured that the top would be around 63.5g with RL-22 and the 165g Matrix. At 63g I got a light ejector mark and 2949fps.

I also loaded some 150g Bergers with 63g of RL-22 and they came up with 2984fps average for 3 shots.

I loaded some 130g Bergers with 65g RL-22 and the velocity averaged 3105fps for 3 shots.

Then I went to 430 yards and banged the gong with it. NW wind at 15-20mph about a 60 degree crosswind I dialed up 7moa and 1.5moa right and proceeded to bang the heck out of the gong! 62g of RL-22 with the 165g Matrix at 2870fps or so.

I also shot my 6.5-284 and found out the scope was 3moa off from hunting season. Banged the gong with that a few times and let my buddy do it. He smacked the 12" gong 2 out of 3 and has never shot much and never at 1/4mile. This summer maybe I can get him out shooting further.

Fun day, can't wait for it to get nicer than 48 degrees and 15-20mph winds.

Sounds like you are having fun Bruce! With a 26" barrel it sounds like you would be crowding 3100' with the 165 Matrix. That is pretty impressive!........Rich

 

[CogburnR]

It is impressive.

The pressure signs are VERY light. The loads I was shooting in my 6.5-284 were stiffer. Lapua brass with definite ejector marks on every case(I usually don't load that heavy).

The 130g loads at 3100 looked like they could use another grain or two of powder so I think that 3150 or so with a 130 is doable for an everyday load that isn't going to be hard on brass. 65g of RL-22 is in the shoulder area of the case. Loads are not compressed yet. N560 might be pretty good for the 130's.

This rifle lacks barrel length but it does have a pretty long throat. That I am sure is helping make up for some barrel length. 165's at 3.51" and that is so they feed. There is a fair amount of jump at that length. 150's are at 3.430 and 130's at 3.360. Not a whole lot of bullet in the case.

The rifle liked the 150 load, also the 130's shot fairly well! Conditions were not real pleasant but the only group that was over an inch was the first one which had a flyer possibly from a clean barrel. The other 4 in the group went into less than an inch easily at 100.

I'm pretty happy because this is all with vld bullets and I have yet to do any seating depth testing!! Berger vld's are noted for being fussy about jump. So far I'm just making sure there is some jump so pressure is not affected.

So, It basically is getting closer to a 270WSM than I expected. Especially considering it has a 22" barrel! It definitely has a regular 270 beat by a long way especially with heaver bullets!

Now it is making me think about your 6.5 Sherman(what does that do with the 160 Matrix anyway??).

 

[elkaholic]

It is impressive.

The pressure signs are VERY light. The loads I was shooting in my 6.5-284 were stiffer. Lapua brass with definite ejector marks on every case(I usually don't load that heavy).

The 130g loads at 3100 looked like they could use another grain or two of powder so I think that 3150 or so with a 130 is doable for an everyday load that isn't going to be hard on brass. 65g of RL-22 is in the shoulder area of the case. Loads are not compressed yet. N560 might be pretty good for the 130's.

This rifle lacks barrel length but it does have a pretty long throat. That I am sure is helping make up for some barrel length. 165's at 3.51" and that is so they feed. There is a fair amount of jump at that length. 150's are at 3.430 and 130's at 3.360. Not a whole lot of bullet in the case.

The rifle liked the 150 load, also the 130's shot fairly well! Conditions were not real pleasant but the only group that was over an inch was the first one which had a flyer possibly from a clean barrel. The other 4 in the group went into less than an inch easily at 100.

I'm pretty happy because this is all with vld bullets and I have yet to do any seating depth testing!! Berger vld's are noted for being fussy about jump. So far I'm just making sure there is some jump so pressure is not affected.

So, It basically is getting closer to a 270WSM than I expected. Especially considering it has a 22" barrel! It definitely has a regular 270 beat by a long way especially with heaver bullets!

Now it is making me think about your 6.5 Sherman(what does that do with the 160 Matrix anyway??).

Glad you are doing so well with it. It is pretty impressive for that length barrel. Cliff Mantha (cmantha) has been shooting the 160's in his Sherman at 3150' and has some very impressive results at 1450 yards. You might pm him and see what his load is. You might also ask (bigngreen), he is Cliffs son and shoots a lot with him......Rich
p.s. we are about ready to get a 6.5 SS together which you may want to consider too.....