250 grain Barnes tipped, no Blood?

[daniel brothers]

I almost tried my barnes out on some big boar hogs that walked by me last saturday.... I guess i should have because that big buck didn't come out of his thick swamp bottom hideout. That last hog of the evening looked like a black 55 gallon drum walking by... even had the crosshairs on him at 40 yds... but.... Hmmm

IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED THROUGH HIM FOR SURE.

 

[7stw]

I almost tried my barnes out on some big boar hogs that walked by me last saturday.... I guess i should have because that big buck didn't come out of his thick swamp bottom hideout. That last hog of the evening looked like a black 55 gallon drum walking by... even had the crosshairs on him at 40 yds... but.... Hmmm

IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED THROUGH HIM FOR SURE.

Yup, I agree, they are pretty tough customers. But il bet he wouldn't be joining the family later though.!

 

[Deleted member 115654]

A radical suggestion. Use a heavy lead bullet. It will leave a hole on both sides.

 

[Wolf76]

if you'd like to try an all copper bullets that leaves huge holes, try the maker bullet. Expansion is terrific and blood trails are amazing.

Maker Bullets offers copper bullets, solid copper and lead free bullets & ammo.

makerbullets.com

pics below are from the 250gr 45 cal bullet this year.

 

[cajun]

Just the nature of the beast with muzzle loaders. Low velocity and energy. I cant tell you how many deer I shot and found no blood but knew I hit the deer. A grid search would lead to a drop or two of blood and then a dead deer close by.

 

[Deleted member 115654]

MZs work best with large bore big LEAD bullets.

 

[DartonJager]

Allow me to offer my experiences using Barnes all copper ML bullets specifically the .451" 245 grain Spitfire, .451" 250 grain blue tipped boat tailed TMZ and .451"/250grn flat based T-EZ and the .451" 290 grain BT/TMZ and .451"/290grn flat based T-EZ
Best guess I have fired at least 500 (yes thats not a misprint 500) of each of the 245 Spitfires and 290grn TMZ's about 120ish of the 250grn TMZ's and about 125 of the flat based 290grn T-EZ's
I shot them all out of my Savage 10ML-II smokeless ML at velocities for the 245/250 bullets at anywhere from 2650 to over 2800fps the 290 grain bullets at a MV of between 2300 and 2400fps.
First thing I found out is you can not shoot a all copper Barnes ML belt fast enough to make come apart and fail. I have many of all the Barnes ML bullets I listed I recovered from the back stop dirt and DIY bullet testing media and over 95% were intact and retained over 95% of their original weight only when the bullet struck a rock in the backstop berm would the bullet loose one of its pettles
I feel it is extremely important to note I never once recovered a all copper Barnes ML bullet from anything that failed to fully expand to a textbook mushroom
Second the flat based were not only more accurate than the boat tailed ones they were easier to get to shoot accurately with less load development
I shot them all out to 300 yards and all gave more than adequate hunting accuracy but the flat based versions of the 290grn T-EZ with their longer bearing surface gave very good and often excellent accuracy
I killed deer with the 245 Spitfire"s 290 BT/TMZ's and 290 FB/T-EZ's and the deer either were DRT or went less than 70 yards
If the shot was broadside of any type I got complete pass through every time only when I made a quartering shot where the bullet would enter after the last rib did the bullet remain in the deer and would end up lodged in the opposite shoulder which it usually broke
I can not say a single bad thing about Barnes all copper ML bullets the loads I used are as fallows:
290grn TMZ Knurled from .451 to .454-.455"
Harvester Red Crushed Ribbed Sabot
68 grains H-4198
Federal 209
Chronograph confirmed MV of 2364fps
245 Spitfire or 250 T-EZ both knurled same as above
70 grain of H4198
Harvester Red Crushed Sabot
Federal 209
Chronograph confirmed MV of 2680fps
I have shot at least 90% of the 45 caliber bullets suitable for use use in 50 cal MLS and none worked better for me than Barnes all copper ML bullets
Others that were as accurate and killed deer very well for me were:
.458" Barnes 300 grain Original SSP
THE Barnes Original or BO as it fans call it is an awesome ML bullet I never shot a more accurate ML bullet but they are kinda pricy
None of the fallowing bullets ever failed me and all shot very well out of both my 10ML-II and my 50 cal Encore using 85 grains by weight of BH209
.452" Hornady 300grn XTP
.452" Hornady 300grn XTP/MAG
.458" 325grn Hornady FTX

Bullets I shot that were very accurate but I only killed a few deer are:
.452" 300 grain T/C Bonded Shockwave
.458" 250 grain Hornady Mono Flex

If your not getting complete pass through with the Barnes then your not at a high enough velocity when the bullet impacts the animal.
If you absolutely must have complete pass through and are pushing bullets at the comparatively limited ML velocities and wish to take shots at the maximum effective range of a in line ML and take maximum quartering angle shots thats going to be difficult to accomplish .
My only suggestion would be to possibly try Barnes all copper 245 grain Spitfires or 250 grain Barnes all copper T-MZ ML bullets as you can most likely get over 2100fps MV and might have enough energy to get full pass through on broadside shots out to 200 yards but the bullet will still do well at close in under 50 yard shots.

 

[7stw]

Allow me to offer my experiences using Barnes all copper ML bullets specifically the .451" 245 grain Spitfire, .451" 250 grain blue tipped boat tailed TMZ and .451"/250grn flat based T-EZ and the .451" 290 grain BT/TMZ and .451"/290grn flat based T-EZ
Best guess I have fired at least 500 (yes thats not a misprint 500) of each of the 245 Spitfires and 290grn TMZ's about 120ish of the 250grn TMZ's and about 125 of the flat based 290grn T-EZ's
I shot them all out of my Savage 10ML-II smokeless ML at velocities for the 245/250 bullets at anywhere from 2650 to over 2800fps the 290 grain bullets at a MV of between 2300 and 2400fps.
First thing I found out is you can not shoot a all copper Barnes ML belt fast enough to make come apart and fail. I have many of all the Barnes ML bullets I listed I recovered from the back stop dirt and DIY bullet testing media and over 95% were intact and retained over 95% of their original weight only when the bullet struck a rock in the backstop berm would the bullet loose one of its pettles
I feel it is extremely important to note I never once recovered a all copper Barnes ML bullet from anything that failed to fully expand to a textbook mushroom
Second the flat based were not only more accurate than the boat tailed ones they were easier to get to shoot accurately with less load development
I shot them all out to 300 yards and all gave more than adequate hunting accuracy but the flat based versions of the 290grn T-EZ with their longer bearing surface gave very good and often excellent accuracy
I killed deer with the 245 Spitfire"s 290 BT/TMZ's and 290 FB/T-EZ's and the deer either were DRT or went less than 70 yards
If the shot was broadside of any type I got complete pass through every time only when I made a quartering shot where the bullet would enter after the last rib did the bullet remain in the deer and would end up lodged in the opposite shoulder which it usually broke
I can not say a single bad thing about Barnes all copper ML bullets the loads I used are as fallows:
290grn TMZ Knurled from .451 to .454-.455"
Harvester Red Crushed Ribbed Sabot
68 grains H-4198
Federal 209
Chronograph confirmed MV of 2364fps
245 Spitfire or 250 T-EZ both knurled same as above
70 grain of H4198
Harvester Red Crushed Sabot
Federal 209
Chronograph confirmed MV of 2680fps
I have shot at least 90% of the 45 caliber bullets suitable for use use in 50 cal MLS and none worked better for me than Barnes all copper ML bullets
Others that were as accurate and killed deer very well for me were:
.458" Barnes 300 grain Original SSP
THE Barnes Original or BO as it fans call it is an awesome ML bullet I never shot a more accurate ML bullet but they are kinda pricy
None of the fallowing bullets ever failed me and all shot very well out of both my 10ML-II and my 50 cal Encore using 85 grains by weight of BH209
.452" Hornady 300grn XTP
.452" Hornady 300grn XTP/MAG
.458" 325grn Hornady FTX

Bullets I shot that were very accurate but I only killed a few deer are:
.452" 300 grain T/C Bonded Shockwave
.458" 250 grain Hornady Mono Flex

If your not getting complete pass through with the Barnes then your not at a high enough velocity when the bullet impacts the animal.
If you absolutely must have complete pass through and are pushing bullets at the comparatively limited ML velocities and wish to take shots at the maximum effective range of a in line ML and take maximum quartering angle shots thats going to be difficult to accomplish .
My only suggestion would be to possibly try Barnes all copper 245 grain Spitfires or 250 grain Barnes all copper T-MZ ML bullets as you can most likely get over 2100fps MV and might have enough energy to get full pass through on broadside shots out to 200 yards but the bullet will still do well at close in under 50 yard shots.

Thanks for the input, and it all ,makes sense. I havent had a failure with the barnes bullet. Ive recovered a few, and they were picture perfect. Ive got headroom on my charge, and may raise it, as it would extend my range a bit, and i can use it in some of my spots. Thanks for the great follow up. I truly do love the Barnes bullets.

 

[Catskills]

I've shot a number mule deer with the Barnes 250s. Inside of 200yds, they always exited and the wound suggested excellent expansion. I think the difference in our experienc is velocity. I use 3 50g pellets which drives these through my chronograph at >2200 FPS. 2 50g pellets chronographed 1700fps. I suspect at the ranges you were shooting, velocity had simply dropped to far to provide the additional penetration. I did play around with 300g bullets. Penetration was great...but expansion fell off quicker than I wanted. I always was tempted to shoot other bullets but was unwilling to accept inferior accuracy.

 

[7stw]

I've shot a number mule deer with the Barnes 250s. Inside of 200yds, they always exited and the wound suggested excellent expansion. I think the difference in our experienc is velocity. I use 3 50g pellets which drives these through my chronograph at >2200 FPS. 2 50g pellets chronographed 1700fps. I suspect at the ranges you were shooting, velocity had simply dropped to far to provide the additional penetration. I did play around with 300g bullets. Penetration was great...but expansion fell off quicker than I wanted. I always was tempted to shoot other bullets but was unwilling to accept inferior accuracy.

I agree. I've stepped up my charge, still very accurate. Since that original event, I've shot two more, one at 155 yards, drt. The other, at about 125, also instantly dropped, massive damage, pass through, no recovery. That was with original powder charge.