trying to build a 25/06 ai. the smith doesnot have the reamer. can he rent one from anyplace? he wants me to buy one new then he keeps it. this build is getting out of hand. can I buy a barrel already setup witha chamber reamed out? thanks
25/06 AI reamer
- Thread starter mark308
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EddieHarren
Well-Known Member
It has been accepted policy, for years, that when you go to a smith for a custom build, and he does not have the reamer, that you pay for the reamer and the smith keeps it. If you wish to purchase your own reamer, or rent one, that is up to you.
Eddie,
Doesn't make any sense for the customer to buy the reamer, and then let the gunsmith keep it. You are paying for chambering work, which I would assume the gunsmith has wear and tear on his reamers included in the price.As a customer, why not buy the reamer, and " LOAN " it to the smith, and keep it when the work is done. Maybe you were just kidding in your post.
Mark 308,
there are places to rent reamers , just don't know who to send you to. I think they rent for about $50-75.00 Personally, I would just pay the $ 135 and get a new one from PT&G . That way you know what you are getting.
Doesn't make any sense for the customer to buy the reamer, and then let the gunsmith keep it. You are paying for chambering work, which I would assume the gunsmith has wear and tear on his reamers included in the price.As a customer, why not buy the reamer, and " LOAN " it to the smith, and keep it when the work is done. Maybe you were just kidding in your post.
Mark 308,
there are places to rent reamers , just don't know who to send you to. I think they rent for about $50-75.00 Personally, I would just pay the $ 135 and get a new one from PT&G . That way you know what you are getting.
Dano1
Well-Known Member
My smith and I actually went half on the reamer that I needed for a 6.5-06 AI. He keeps the reamer. He will pay for reamers for standard chambers and doesn't charge, but not for Wildcats that aren't the norm. He wanted the reamer, so he adjusted his policy for me. I understand his view and was happy to do so. I really wanted a 6.5-06 AI. He also agreed that I retain half ownership and can use or loan the reamer when I want as long as it comes back to him for his use. That is my right to the reamer.
Works for me.
Dan
Works for me.
Dan
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
Sorry true but your wrong. The difference is the smith is at least being honest and up front with you. Go have something manufactured for you at a machine shop. You think your not paying for that tooling? You are only it's going to be rolled right into the price of the job. You'll never see it as its part of the labor charge.
EddieHarren
Well-Known Member
Trueblue, I wasn't kidding. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. I don't know how it started or if it's fair to the customer, it's just that way. I have no problems with a customer buying his own reamer and having me use it on his barrels. Several of my BR customers do this. I have borrowed reamers, from one of my Varmint shooters, numerous times. In return for this service I give him a break, when chambering a barrel for him.
EDDIE,
What you have done with your benchrest customers sounds fair to me.
Nesika Chad,
I don't quite understand your logic. For instance, if I am paying say $200.00 for a chamber job, and then have to pay another $150.00 on top of that for a reamer, then let the gunsmith keep the reamer,the chambering is costing me $350.00. Do not gunsmiths include the cost of replacing reamers in the price of a chambering job ? For instance, if you get 20 chamberings on 1 reamer, the cost to chamber 1 barrel to the gunsmith might be $10.00, versus $150.00 to the customer.
And if I buy the reamer and loan it to the smith, I too am being honest and up front with him.
When I had a 338 EDGE built, I bought the reamers, and had a gunsmith put it together for me. I still have the reamers, and have let him use them on 1 occasion, no charge.If I am going to purchase equipment to assist the gunsmith in building me a rifle, I will keep that equipment. That might not be the way it has been done, but that is the way I have, and will continue to proceed.
What you have done with your benchrest customers sounds fair to me.
Nesika Chad,
I don't quite understand your logic. For instance, if I am paying say $200.00 for a chamber job, and then have to pay another $150.00 on top of that for a reamer, then let the gunsmith keep the reamer,the chambering is costing me $350.00. Do not gunsmiths include the cost of replacing reamers in the price of a chambering job ? For instance, if you get 20 chamberings on 1 reamer, the cost to chamber 1 barrel to the gunsmith might be $10.00, versus $150.00 to the customer.
And if I buy the reamer and loan it to the smith, I too am being honest and up front with him.
When I had a 338 EDGE built, I bought the reamers, and had a gunsmith put it together for me. I still have the reamers, and have let him use them on 1 occasion, no charge.If I am going to purchase equipment to assist the gunsmith in building me a rifle, I will keep that equipment. That might not be the way it has been done, but that is the way I have, and will continue to proceed.
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
How/why it is fair and the ethics behind it. I'll warn you all now. This is big boy rules and plain talk so if your easily offended, start cracking knuckles cause you'll want to have your typing fingers all ready to go when you blast me.
There are two sides to this:
If your a gunsmith fitting barrel blanks to receivers and you don't already own the staple "food group" of chambering reamers (223, 30-06, 308, 300WM, etc) then your kind of behind the power curve since these are the meat and potatoes of the sporting arms industry. A gunsmith should already have those kinds of chamber reamers on hand just as they should have threading tool inserts, parting tool inserts, taps, reamers, mills, drills, centerdrills, countersinks, etc.
Now, if a guy walks in and wants a 6mmPPC with an improved shoulder angle, a 262 neck and he plans to shoot 66 grain Bart custom bullet but wants it throated like a Weatherby then is it realistic for me as a shop owner to pay for that? How often is it going to get used? When do I get to my investment back out of it? What about the time that goes into ordering it, waiting for it to show up, and then finally being able to do the work. Dave Kiff is pretty **** good but I've waited as long as six weeks for a reamer from him when things are hectic. That's six weeks of your job sitting stagnant in my shop and that means I'm waiting to get paid.
That is a bit blunt however let us not forget the whole point of being in business is to earn a profit so that little mouths at home can continue being the adorable little parasites that they are.
Then what happens when you figure out just how much BS work it is to form cases, neck turn, load develop, buy the dies, etc. and you decide to just go with a 6mm BR instead? Do I buy that reamer too? Now what happens to the "6ppc super exotica"?
I can see/agree with maybe going in half but you better be Jonny on the spot when it comes to doing your part/responsibility as a customer. Make sure that FFL arrives on time, make sure you know what you want ahead of time (Ever deal with a customer who changes his order every time a magazine article gets published?), and don't keep us on the phone for hours at a time because "Bubba" at the range says you should have a 261 neck instead of a 262.
The only way I'd ever absorb the entire cost is if its a caliber I should already own and/or you were a very long time customer who used me exclusively and had a long history of having high end rifles built. But these are also the kind of customers that aren't going to think twice about being asked to buy a $150 dollar reamer either.
Last scenario. You are well intentioned and show up with your own reamer. But now what do I do because I have already invested thousands in specialized tooling to cut a chamber as well as I possibly can. If you want me to use your reamer should I then charge you for my custom pilots that are made in .0002" increments? What if you walk in with a JGS or Dave Manson Reamer. Now my pilots don't work. What happens now if the gun doesn't shoot? Should I have to warranty the work?
These same customers who don't sweat this petty stuff are the same kinds of customers who aren't paranoid about having a gunmaker order their parts and then charge a little for the trouble. They are usually more interested in knowing the work is done right the first time. That's the caliber of people I adore dealing with and I strive for it.
I've kinda gone on a tangent here and it may **** some guys off and I'm very sorry for that but business has to be a two way street. Gimme gimme gimme just doesn't work guys. The good gunmakers out there strive to foster personal relationships with their customers. They also charge a premium because their work and their word sticks. It has backbone.
Told you I'd be blunt.
There are two sides to this:
If your a gunsmith fitting barrel blanks to receivers and you don't already own the staple "food group" of chambering reamers (223, 30-06, 308, 300WM, etc) then your kind of behind the power curve since these are the meat and potatoes of the sporting arms industry. A gunsmith should already have those kinds of chamber reamers on hand just as they should have threading tool inserts, parting tool inserts, taps, reamers, mills, drills, centerdrills, countersinks, etc.
Now, if a guy walks in and wants a 6mmPPC with an improved shoulder angle, a 262 neck and he plans to shoot 66 grain Bart custom bullet but wants it throated like a Weatherby then is it realistic for me as a shop owner to pay for that? How often is it going to get used? When do I get to my investment back out of it? What about the time that goes into ordering it, waiting for it to show up, and then finally being able to do the work. Dave Kiff is pretty **** good but I've waited as long as six weeks for a reamer from him when things are hectic. That's six weeks of your job sitting stagnant in my shop and that means I'm waiting to get paid.
That is a bit blunt however let us not forget the whole point of being in business is to earn a profit so that little mouths at home can continue being the adorable little parasites that they are.
Then what happens when you figure out just how much BS work it is to form cases, neck turn, load develop, buy the dies, etc. and you decide to just go with a 6mm BR instead? Do I buy that reamer too? Now what happens to the "6ppc super exotica"?
I can see/agree with maybe going in half but you better be Jonny on the spot when it comes to doing your part/responsibility as a customer. Make sure that FFL arrives on time, make sure you know what you want ahead of time (Ever deal with a customer who changes his order every time a magazine article gets published?), and don't keep us on the phone for hours at a time because "Bubba" at the range says you should have a 261 neck instead of a 262.
The only way I'd ever absorb the entire cost is if its a caliber I should already own and/or you were a very long time customer who used me exclusively and had a long history of having high end rifles built. But these are also the kind of customers that aren't going to think twice about being asked to buy a $150 dollar reamer either.
Last scenario. You are well intentioned and show up with your own reamer. But now what do I do because I have already invested thousands in specialized tooling to cut a chamber as well as I possibly can. If you want me to use your reamer should I then charge you for my custom pilots that are made in .0002" increments? What if you walk in with a JGS or Dave Manson Reamer. Now my pilots don't work. What happens now if the gun doesn't shoot? Should I have to warranty the work?
These same customers who don't sweat this petty stuff are the same kinds of customers who aren't paranoid about having a gunmaker order their parts and then charge a little for the trouble. They are usually more interested in knowing the work is done right the first time. That's the caliber of people I adore dealing with and I strive for it.
I've kinda gone on a tangent here and it may **** some guys off and I'm very sorry for that but business has to be a two way street. Gimme gimme gimme just doesn't work guys. The good gunmakers out there strive to foster personal relationships with their customers. They also charge a premium because their work and their word sticks. It has backbone.
Told you I'd be blunt.
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Chad,
Don't know how this thread went from someone asking about where to get a reamer for a 25-06 AI to where the thread stands now.
My statement stands. If I am to purchase a reamer for a custom build, I will be keeping that reamer when the work is done.
For a customer, it is the logical, cost effective way to approach it. I would not think it would make any difference to the gunsmith if I supplied the reamer or not.
Have a good day, and be careful over there in Iraq.
JIM
Don't know how this thread went from someone asking about where to get a reamer for a 25-06 AI to where the thread stands now.
My statement stands. If I am to purchase a reamer for a custom build, I will be keeping that reamer when the work is done.
For a customer, it is the logical, cost effective way to approach it. I would not think it would make any difference to the gunsmith if I supplied the reamer or not.
Have a good day, and be careful over there in Iraq.
JIM
EddieHarren
Well-Known Member
Trueblue, maybe that is what you should have said in the first place. Instead of offering insinuations.
Eddie,
Not quite sure what insinuations you are referring to. If you reread my posts, they are very clear. Seems like we have a hostile crowd on this forum today. My posts were made with the intent to help the original poster find a reamer, before things got off topic.If you fellas want to get in a ****ing match, do it without me. I choose not to participate.
Not quite sure what insinuations you are referring to. If you reread my posts, they are very clear. Seems like we have a hostile crowd on this forum today. My posts were made with the intent to help the original poster find a reamer, before things got off topic.If you fellas want to get in a ****ing match, do it without me. I choose not to participate.
EddieHarren
Well-Known Member
"Maybe you were just kidding in your post." That is an insinuation. Believe me I'm not at all hostile. I just resent someone insinuating that I was "just kidding" when I was honestly trying to explain how things are, and have been, in the industry for years. PAX!
Eddie,
It was not an insinuation. I truly thought you were maybe kidding, as at the time I did not know what industry standard was in regards to reamers. What does the appreviation " PAX "stand for at the end of your post ?
It was not an insinuation. I truly thought you were maybe kidding, as at the time I did not know what industry standard was in regards to reamers. What does the appreviation " PAX "stand for at the end of your post ?
thanks for the input guys. after thinking it over Im going to let the smith buy what he needs. to bad Im wanting to build such a freak of a caliber. years ago I couldnt find a 308norma reamer either. thanks chad for the input, it reminded me of the last smith I tried to work with. he seemed overbooked, had no time to explain anything he was going to do or why. just wanted me to give him 3000 and go away for 2 years. what a racket. dont get me wrong, I build Hi-po engines and its a pain dealing with wanna be "experts'. so you made good points.
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