With a 26" tube what are the velocity gains? any real word experience? Thanx in advance!
25-06 Ackley Imp?
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James Jones
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No personaly usage with one but had a few buddies that had them and they loved them , one was on a 24" and the other was a 28" barrel , the one with a 28" barrel got 257 Wby factory velocities wioth alot less powder.
I personaly would go with a 6.5-06Ai over the 25 cal due to the better selection of bullets for long range. I'm just not a big fan of the quarter bore
I personaly would go with a 6.5-06Ai over the 25 cal due to the better selection of bullets for long range. I'm just not a big fan of the quarter bore
keithcandler
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R#25 turns a regular 25/06 into something really special. I got these loads from a 26" Shelin 12 twist barrel #5 contour in a Mcmillen stock with a 6-24 German scope on it.
This rifle has a minimum spec chamber
Win Brass
63.0g of R#25
Fed 215 primer
100g Sierra Flat base
3650 fps @ .350 3 shot groups
cases could be neck sized for follow up firing
Win Brass
Fed 215 primers
58.0g of R#25
117g Sierra Flat base
.450 groups at 3350 fps
Absolute max load for this rifle
If you are using a 10 twist, I suggest that you reduce your loads by 5.0g on each of the above loads and work up to these powder charges. Barrels and chambers vary, be careful and when working up loads in your rifle and do not increase powder charge when you start to see pressure signs.
I don't think that you will get faster or more accurate loads in an AI compared to these loads.
This rifle has a minimum spec chamber
Win Brass
63.0g of R#25
Fed 215 primer
100g Sierra Flat base
3650 fps @ .350 3 shot groups
cases could be neck sized for follow up firing
Win Brass
Fed 215 primers
58.0g of R#25
117g Sierra Flat base
.450 groups at 3350 fps
Absolute max load for this rifle
If you are using a 10 twist, I suggest that you reduce your loads by 5.0g on each of the above loads and work up to these powder charges. Barrels and chambers vary, be careful and when working up loads in your rifle and do not increase powder charge when you start to see pressure signs.
I don't think that you will get faster or more accurate loads in an AI compared to these loads.
Man that is 257 Roy territory /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
brianwinzor
Well-Known Member
Keith, I don't doubt your chrono results, but they certainly are incredibly high velocities for a 25/06, and about 300 fps higher than I have achieved at safe maximum loads in two 25/06 rifles. I found that 3350 fps was maximum for the 100 grain bullet, and about 3,050 for the 120 grain bullet.
I agree with you that you won't get faster than that with a 25/06AI. My custom 25/06 AI achieved about 3,580 fps (62.0/Re 22) with the 100 grain Nosler BT, and 3,290 fps with the Nosler 115 BT (62.0/Re 25)in a 24 inch 1 in 10 twist barrel, with what is probably a standard tolerance chamber and neck.
First question: How do you fit 63.0 grains of Reloader 25 into a 25/06 case and then seat the bullet without severely compressing and crushing the powder kernels. I could only fit 60.7 grains (Re 22) to the base of the neck in new Winchester brass, and I was trickling it in slowly using a powder funnel with a 5 inch drop tube. New Remington brass only held 59.5 grains to the base of the neck.
Out of curiosity how much bigger is your minimum specification chamber than Winchester 25/06 new brass dimensions. My Winchester new brass measured about .4665 at the head, .4395 at the shoulder, and .285 at the mouth of the neck.
Last question: What is the length of the Sierra 117 grain flat base bullet which I assume you are using so that it will stabilise in the 1 in 12 twist barrel. I note that the Sierra 117 grain spire point boat tail measures about 1.120 inches. Regards, Brian.
I agree with you that you won't get faster than that with a 25/06AI. My custom 25/06 AI achieved about 3,580 fps (62.0/Re 22) with the 100 grain Nosler BT, and 3,290 fps with the Nosler 115 BT (62.0/Re 25)in a 24 inch 1 in 10 twist barrel, with what is probably a standard tolerance chamber and neck.
First question: How do you fit 63.0 grains of Reloader 25 into a 25/06 case and then seat the bullet without severely compressing and crushing the powder kernels. I could only fit 60.7 grains (Re 22) to the base of the neck in new Winchester brass, and I was trickling it in slowly using a powder funnel with a 5 inch drop tube. New Remington brass only held 59.5 grains to the base of the neck.
Out of curiosity how much bigger is your minimum specification chamber than Winchester 25/06 new brass dimensions. My Winchester new brass measured about .4665 at the head, .4395 at the shoulder, and .285 at the mouth of the neck.
Last question: What is the length of the Sierra 117 grain flat base bullet which I assume you are using so that it will stabilise in the 1 in 12 twist barrel. I note that the Sierra 117 grain spire point boat tail measures about 1.120 inches. Regards, Brian.
I Think That he could get that verlocity from a very hot loaded 25-06, my 25-06 with 26 inhc tube gets 3200 fps plus from 115 VLD's and Re-22, and that is not a max velocity load,,,
I have thrown 85's at 3700 with no pressure signs using H-4831.. Reloader 22 and 25 works like magic in the 25-06..
I think Fiftydriver gets 3500 fps from 100 BT's out of his factory 25-06, and it only has a 10 twist 24 inch bbl.. using Re-22.
Also the gun that gets 3600 plus fps from the 100 grain might have a long throat, plus the 12 twist will allow more vel than a 10 twist, most 25-06's have 10 twists.. it's possable... I know a 25-06 improved will beat it... with the same throat and same twist by at least 100-150 fps
The 25-06 AI although overbore, just seems to be more efficient (spelling) that a 257 WBY and seems to get the same or higher vel per bullet.
scott
I have thrown 85's at 3700 with no pressure signs using H-4831.. Reloader 22 and 25 works like magic in the 25-06..
I think Fiftydriver gets 3500 fps from 100 BT's out of his factory 25-06, and it only has a 10 twist 24 inch bbl.. using Re-22.
Also the gun that gets 3600 plus fps from the 100 grain might have a long throat, plus the 12 twist will allow more vel than a 10 twist, most 25-06's have 10 twists.. it's possable... I know a 25-06 improved will beat it... with the same throat and same twist by at least 100-150 fps
The 25-06 AI although overbore, just seems to be more efficient (spelling) that a 257 WBY and seems to get the same or higher vel per bullet.
scott
brianwinzor
Well-Known Member
Scott, I am not doubting the velocities that Keith (and you) are recording, I was just querying how it was achieved.
I know that in the two 25/06 rifles that I have owned that I could not have got anywhere near those velocites at what I believe would be safe maximum pressures for my rifles.
The barrels on both my two 25/06 rifles were subsequently set back and rechambered to the 25/06AI, which resulted in a significant improvement in velocity (about 225 - 250 fps) over the standard 25/06 in the same barrel. The chrono results of the two rifles were:
Rifle 1: Sako AV 25/06 Hunter 24 inch CM barrel.
Nosler 100 grain BT
55.0 - IMR 4831 - 3220
56.0 - IMR 4831 - 3259 (Max)
56.0 - WIN 785 - 3298 (Max)
57.0 - WIN 785 - 3377 (Above Max) cases lasted 3 -4 shots.
58.0 - WIN 785 - 3418 (Above Max)
Nosler 120 SPBT
54.0 - H4831 - 2906
55.0 - H4331 - 2972 (Near Max)
54.0 - WIN 785 - 2975
55.0 - WIN 785 - 3075 (Max)
56.0 - WIN 785 - 3100 (Above Max)
55.0 - IMR 7828 - 2923
56.0 - IMR 7828 - 3040 (Max)
57.0 - IMR 7828 - 3100 (Above Max)
Rifle 1 Sako AV 25/06 AI Sako 24 inch CM Barrel
Nosler 100 grain BT
60.0 - IMR 4831 - 3519
60.5 - IMR 4831 - 3547 (Max)
61.0 - IMR 4831 - 3596 (Above Max)
62.0 - WIN 785 - 3514
63.0 - WIN 785 - 3556 (Max)
64.0 - WIN 785 - 3631 (Above Max)
Nosler 120 grain SPBT
58.0 - WIN 785 - 3269 (Max)
59.0 - WIN 785 - 3295 (Above Max)
60.0 - WIN 785 - 3377 (Above Max)
59.0 - IMR 7828 - 3267 (Max)
60.0 - IMR 7828 - 3325 (Above Max)
61.0 - IMR 7828 - 3401 (Above Max)
Rifle 2 Custom 25/06 Sako L61R, Shilen SS 24 inch barrel
Nosler 100 grain BT
57.0 - H4831sc - 3172
58.0 - H4831sc - 3232 (Max)
57.0 - Re 22 - 3252
58.0 - Re 22 - 3320 (Max)
57.0 - VihtN165 - 3205
58.0 - VihtN165 - 3255
59.0 - VihtN165 - 3342 (Max)
Rifle 2 25/06 AI Sako L61R, Shilen SS 24 inch barrel.
100 grain Nosler BT
60.0 - H4831sc - 3344
61.0 - H4831sc - 3435
62.0 - H4831sc - 3479 (Max)
63.0 - H4831sc - 3544 (Above Max)
58.0 - IMR 4831 - 3456
59.0 - IMR 4831 - 3523 (Max)
60.0 - IMR 4831 - 3599 (Above Max)
60.0 - VihtN560 - 3406
61.0 - VihtN560 - 3484
62.0 - VihtN560 - 3566 (Max)
60.0 - Re 22 - 3395
61.0 - Re 22 - 3501
62.0 - Re 22 - 3580 (Max)
62.0 - VihtN165 - 3499
63.0 - VihtN165 - 3562 (Max)
Nosler 115 BT
58.0 - IMR 7828 - 3281 (Max)
59.0 - IMR 7828 - 3290 (Above Max)
59.0 - Viht N165 - 3305 (Max)
61.0 - H1000 - 3157
62.0 - H1000 - 3222
63.0 - H1000 - 3271 (Max)
61.0 - Re 25 - 3218
62.0 - Re 25 - 3293 (Max)
62.0 Viht N170 - 3165
63.0 Viht N170 - 3202
64.0 Viht N170 - 3286 (Near Max)
I discovered in Rifle 1 when a 25/06 that when I attempted to achieve 3400 fps with the 100 grain bullet and over 3,100 with the 120 grain bullet the cases would only last 3 - 4 shots before the primer pockets were too loose to reuse. Similarly in this rifle in 25/06AI mode when I used load that achieved velocities of over 3,600 fps with the 100 and 3,300 with the 120 the cases would only last 3- 4 shots.
In Rifle 2, I quickly found that if I used loads that produced velocities in the 3300 to 3350 range for the 100 grain bullet that cases lasted 6 - 10 shots. Similarly in this rifle when in 25/06 AI mode, I have consciously tried to use more conservative loads than I used in Rifle 1. As a result the original 60 Remington case have fired about 500 shots and are still usable, despite working up loads to max with the 100, 115, 125, 130, 142, and 156 grain bullets.
I guess what this all confirms once again is that all rifles are different, and most people load to a pressure level to which they feel comfortable with. Regards, Brian.
I know that in the two 25/06 rifles that I have owned that I could not have got anywhere near those velocites at what I believe would be safe maximum pressures for my rifles.
The barrels on both my two 25/06 rifles were subsequently set back and rechambered to the 25/06AI, which resulted in a significant improvement in velocity (about 225 - 250 fps) over the standard 25/06 in the same barrel. The chrono results of the two rifles were:
Rifle 1: Sako AV 25/06 Hunter 24 inch CM barrel.
Nosler 100 grain BT
55.0 - IMR 4831 - 3220
56.0 - IMR 4831 - 3259 (Max)
56.0 - WIN 785 - 3298 (Max)
57.0 - WIN 785 - 3377 (Above Max) cases lasted 3 -4 shots.
58.0 - WIN 785 - 3418 (Above Max)
Nosler 120 SPBT
54.0 - H4831 - 2906
55.0 - H4331 - 2972 (Near Max)
54.0 - WIN 785 - 2975
55.0 - WIN 785 - 3075 (Max)
56.0 - WIN 785 - 3100 (Above Max)
55.0 - IMR 7828 - 2923
56.0 - IMR 7828 - 3040 (Max)
57.0 - IMR 7828 - 3100 (Above Max)
Rifle 1 Sako AV 25/06 AI Sako 24 inch CM Barrel
Nosler 100 grain BT
60.0 - IMR 4831 - 3519
60.5 - IMR 4831 - 3547 (Max)
61.0 - IMR 4831 - 3596 (Above Max)
62.0 - WIN 785 - 3514
63.0 - WIN 785 - 3556 (Max)
64.0 - WIN 785 - 3631 (Above Max)
Nosler 120 grain SPBT
58.0 - WIN 785 - 3269 (Max)
59.0 - WIN 785 - 3295 (Above Max)
60.0 - WIN 785 - 3377 (Above Max)
59.0 - IMR 7828 - 3267 (Max)
60.0 - IMR 7828 - 3325 (Above Max)
61.0 - IMR 7828 - 3401 (Above Max)
Rifle 2 Custom 25/06 Sako L61R, Shilen SS 24 inch barrel
Nosler 100 grain BT
57.0 - H4831sc - 3172
58.0 - H4831sc - 3232 (Max)
57.0 - Re 22 - 3252
58.0 - Re 22 - 3320 (Max)
57.0 - VihtN165 - 3205
58.0 - VihtN165 - 3255
59.0 - VihtN165 - 3342 (Max)
Rifle 2 25/06 AI Sako L61R, Shilen SS 24 inch barrel.
100 grain Nosler BT
60.0 - H4831sc - 3344
61.0 - H4831sc - 3435
62.0 - H4831sc - 3479 (Max)
63.0 - H4831sc - 3544 (Above Max)
58.0 - IMR 4831 - 3456
59.0 - IMR 4831 - 3523 (Max)
60.0 - IMR 4831 - 3599 (Above Max)
60.0 - VihtN560 - 3406
61.0 - VihtN560 - 3484
62.0 - VihtN560 - 3566 (Max)
60.0 - Re 22 - 3395
61.0 - Re 22 - 3501
62.0 - Re 22 - 3580 (Max)
62.0 - VihtN165 - 3499
63.0 - VihtN165 - 3562 (Max)
Nosler 115 BT
58.0 - IMR 7828 - 3281 (Max)
59.0 - IMR 7828 - 3290 (Above Max)
59.0 - Viht N165 - 3305 (Max)
61.0 - H1000 - 3157
62.0 - H1000 - 3222
63.0 - H1000 - 3271 (Max)
61.0 - Re 25 - 3218
62.0 - Re 25 - 3293 (Max)
62.0 Viht N170 - 3165
63.0 Viht N170 - 3202
64.0 Viht N170 - 3286 (Near Max)
I discovered in Rifle 1 when a 25/06 that when I attempted to achieve 3400 fps with the 100 grain bullet and over 3,100 with the 120 grain bullet the cases would only last 3 - 4 shots before the primer pockets were too loose to reuse. Similarly in this rifle in 25/06AI mode when I used load that achieved velocities of over 3,600 fps with the 100 and 3,300 with the 120 the cases would only last 3- 4 shots.
In Rifle 2, I quickly found that if I used loads that produced velocities in the 3300 to 3350 range for the 100 grain bullet that cases lasted 6 - 10 shots. Similarly in this rifle when in 25/06 AI mode, I have consciously tried to use more conservative loads than I used in Rifle 1. As a result the original 60 Remington case have fired about 500 shots and are still usable, despite working up loads to max with the 100, 115, 125, 130, 142, and 156 grain bullets.
I guess what this all confirms once again is that all rifles are different, and most people load to a pressure level to which they feel comfortable with. Regards, Brian.
G
Guest
Guest
In a std. 25-06 I have found that VHIT N165 gave the best performance. This was with a Ruger KM77VT 26". load is 58.5 GR N165 for a vel. of 3300 fps. Good for 1200yd rock chucks. the other load I have used is 59gr of H414 and a 75gr VMax for 3900fps I got in the 500yd club with this one @ 665YD on a rock chuck.These loads were safe in my gun!!! I think you could get a bit more in a improved case. Old Bear
I have been shooting a M70 .25-06 for several years, and I too have some loads in the same velocity class as some of you guys. I am using AA 2700 as my powder. It has become a hard powder for me to obtain, but it is super efficient in the .25-06 case. I am getting 3700 fps with 87 gr Speer and 85 gr NBTs, 54 gr AA 2700, WW brass and WLR primers. With 100 gr NBTs, I am shooting 53 gr AA 2700 and getting 3461 fps. I was getting 3415 fps with 58 gr IMR 4831, I think.
I got interested in reaching out a little better and using 115 NBTs, but my best loads were all in the 2950 fps range. I settled on 58 gr RL 22 giving me 2954 fps and groups in the high 2s to low 3s at 100 yards. I have not had the chance to try them at longer ranges. I was hoping my fiance would enjoy shooting my .25-06 with the 115s, but the recoil was more than she wanted or maybe muzzle blast. Even the 100s were more than she could handle without flinching.
If you want to try out my loads, work up to them and see the numbers on your chrono. I would be interested and seeing what you get. I know of one other guy using AA 2700 in his 25-06 getting similar numbers and accuracy.
I got interested in reaching out a little better and using 115 NBTs, but my best loads were all in the 2950 fps range. I settled on 58 gr RL 22 giving me 2954 fps and groups in the high 2s to low 3s at 100 yards. I have not had the chance to try them at longer ranges. I was hoping my fiance would enjoy shooting my .25-06 with the 115s, but the recoil was more than she wanted or maybe muzzle blast. Even the 100s were more than she could handle without flinching.
If you want to try out my loads, work up to them and see the numbers on your chrono. I would be interested and seeing what you get. I know of one other guy using AA 2700 in his 25-06 getting similar numbers and accuracy.
