Stick with the AI, all of the Needmore's are reinventions of the wheelI have the following rifles on hand currently in .224 caliber (other than ARs with 5.56/.223).
So I find myself weighing pros and cons of each of the rifles I own and now the 22 Creedmoor is on the scene. I'm not sure it offers anything over the Swift or the 22-250 AI but it has to be considered I think.
- Remington 700 VSSF clone in 220 Swift. I bought a takeoff factory barrel several years ago. I finally got around to buying an HS Precision Sendero stock direct from Remington before the bankruptcy and I bought a 700 stainless LA action. Had my gunsmith fit up/headspace the barrel; none of the factory barrel stamping are clocked correct but we wanted to see if it would shoot first. Well, with factory Hornady 50 grain Vmax ammo the thing shoots in the .3 range consistently! I don't Varmint hunt and it has a 14 twist barrel so options are limited there.
- I also have a semi custom 22-250 AI with a R700 receiver that has been trued up, Bartlein Remington Varmint contour 5R 7 twist stainless barrel, McMillan hunter stock, Jewell trigger, Magpul DBM
& PTG 1 piece bolt. It shoots 90 grain Speer Gold Dots in the .3-.4 range. It's an awesome looking rifle with the stock and cerakote job that is on it. My main issue with it is I find myself wanting a custom action and carbon barrel. I absolutely would build it the same way but with the changes noted. I have plenty of fire formed Lapua brass as well as unformed brass, dies, etc.
I've been consistently moving away from factory rifles and semi custom rifles and thinning down to just the ones I want/need.
My heart tells me to sell both and build another 22-250AI with a fast twist barrel, properly throated for heavy Bergers and configured the way I would want it.
- So the 220 Swift is a nostalgia cartridge for me and it shoots exceptionally well. But it's handicapped by sub par brass (to me) and the 14 twist barrel is less than ideal for my needs. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself it needs to go. And I find myself wanting to rebarrel it and make in an AI as well; which is probably a fool's errand.
- While I really like the looks of my 22-250AI, it's losing its luster in its current configuration to me.
- Do I really want a Creedmoor? GAG.
It's no secret I love me some improved cartridges.
Sorry for the late night rambling, just looking for additional thoughts.
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.224 cartridge dilemma/discussion
- Thread starter Mike D Texas
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I've followed your threads through the years and know your 22-250AI is a screamer.
It's a no brainer to build one in a fast twist throated for heavies if that's your game.
Having said that, I feel the 22 Creed is the balastic twin and nearly identical in form. It's already throated for heavies and all the big players are making brass for it. Plus you can neck down 6 creed brass.
I get the nostalgia for the swift and 250 plus the reluctance to jump in bed with the big H. It just makes sense to me.
It's a no brainer to build one in a fast twist throated for heavies if that's your game.
Having said that, I feel the 22 Creed is the balastic twin and nearly identical in form. It's already throated for heavies and all the big players are making brass for it. Plus you can neck down 6 creed brass.
I get the nostalgia for the swift and 250 plus the reluctance to jump in bed with the big H. It just makes sense to me.
rebarrel one of the rifles, keep the old barrel you might find another project that might fit your saved bbl. sounds like an interesting project like just changing wheels on one of your favorite hotrods. guns are like tools there is no such thing as having too many!!!I have the following rifles on hand currently in .224 caliber (other than ARs with 5.56/.223).
So I find myself weighing pros and cons of each of the rifles I own and now the 22 Creedmoor is on the scene. I'm not sure it offers anything over the Swift or the 22-250 AI but it has to be considered I think.
- Remington 700 VSSF clone in 220 Swift. I bought a takeoff factory barrel several years ago. I finally got around to buying an HS Precision Sendero stock direct from Remington before the bankruptcy and I bought a 700 stainless LA action. Had my gunsmith fit up/headspace the barrel; none of the factory barrel stamping are clocked correct but we wanted to see if it would shoot first. Well, with factory Hornady 50 grain Vmax ammo the thing shoots in the .3 range consistently! I don't Varmint hunt and it has a 14 twist barrel so options are limited there.
- I also have a semi custom 22-250 AI with a R700 receiver that has been trued up, Bartlein Remington Varmint contour 5R 7 twist stainless barrel, McMillan hunter stock, Jewell trigger, Magpul DBM
I've been consistently moving away from factory rifles and semi custom rifles and thinning down to just the ones I want/need.
My heart tells me to sell both and build another 22-250AI with a fast twist barrel, properly throated for heavy Bergers and configured the way I would want it.
- So the 220 Swift is a nostalgia cartridge for me and it shoots exceptionally well. But it's handicapped by sub par brass (to me) and the 14 twist barrel is less than ideal for my needs. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself it needs to go. And I find myself wanting to rebarrel it and make in an AI as well; which is probably a fool's errand.
- While I really like the looks of my 22-250AI, it's losing its luster in its current configuration to me.
- Do I really want a Creedmoor? GAG.
It's no secret I love me some improved cartridges.
Sorry for the late night rambling, just looking for additional thoughts.
I had an older Ruger 77 Tang safety in 220 Swift. I rebarreled it to 220 Weatherby Rocket with a 1/8 twist and I love it. It shoots all weights from 55 grains to 80 grain Bergers VLD's very well. The brass does not require constant trimming as it did in the past. It really likes the 75, 80 Hornady AMAX's and the Swift 75 grain bullets. I used it on a few deer with the old style Barnes 60 grain lead core bullets with the old stock barrel and it worked fine. Two of them ran but not far, and the ranges were under 200 yds . On broadside chest shots penetration was always complete. I would use it it on antelope today but its a long range coyote, chuck and prairie dog gun. The Rocket (Improved Swift) is really easy to load and fire form and the brass. I also have a stock Weatherby 22-250 SPM and it likes the the lighter 50-55 grain bullets but it has the stock barrel.
Palmetto Armory AR-15 lower and upper 1/7 twist, ThunderBeast suppressor. CFE 223 25.4 gr. Berger 80.0 or 80.5
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Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
The high end brass for the 220 swift aren't out there, or I haven't seen them. I have a 220swift in a Mauser action It a tack drive with 55gr bullets and 52gr bullets. It's 1-14 twist rate. Why anybody would need an AI in that chambering is belong me. I would go to a 22/250AI and faster twists for heaver bullets.
Hard to get dies for, and even harder to find a smith with a reamer, but the 220 Swift AI is a real monster.
There is a large difference between Norma Swift brass and Winchester. It would take one heck of a sloppy chamber to accommodate both of these brands of brass.
Brass flow from the case body into the neck is tremendous on the Swift. Neck trimming constantly is the norm with the Swift. Also, if a guy ever gets to checking the neck thickness on the swift cases that have been fired 5 times or so vs new brass, the guy may have apoplexy.
40* shoulder stops almost all brass flow into the neck, not all, but most. 22 Creed is the easy button nowadays, but 22 Creed dies are challenging to find. I fire-formed my 22/250 AI brass while hunting coyotes, 55's at 3850 is the fire-forming load with 1/2" groups or better. Formed brass loads were 4050 fps with 55g Nosler ballistic tips and Sierras of some flavor. I also shot the 60g and 64g Bergers at 3700 fps into tiny bug holes with Win 760, and these two bullets saw up coyotes real well.
I am an avid believer that speed kills with coyotes, got to have enough *** behind the bullet to break bones and penetrate on quartering shots
There is a large difference between Norma Swift brass and Winchester. It would take one heck of a sloppy chamber to accommodate both of these brands of brass.
Brass flow from the case body into the neck is tremendous on the Swift. Neck trimming constantly is the norm with the Swift. Also, if a guy ever gets to checking the neck thickness on the swift cases that have been fired 5 times or so vs new brass, the guy may have apoplexy.
40* shoulder stops almost all brass flow into the neck, not all, but most. 22 Creed is the easy button nowadays, but 22 Creed dies are challenging to find. I fire-formed my 22/250 AI brass while hunting coyotes, 55's at 3850 is the fire-forming load with 1/2" groups or better. Formed brass loads were 4050 fps with 55g Nosler ballistic tips and Sierras of some flavor. I also shot the 60g and 64g Bergers at 3700 fps into tiny bug holes with Win 760, and these two bullets saw up coyotes real well.
I am an avid believer that speed kills with coyotes, got to have enough *** behind the bullet to break bones and penetrate on quartering shots
I would not sell an honest sub half minute rifle, been there and done that and regretted it. It will sit in the safe, won't bother anyone and doesn't eat, so no harm in letting it sit there a while between getting out and shooting it. If your swift shoots like that I would absolutely keep it. I'd figure out a way to build another rifle, and if it were me I would look at 22-243 because it's different and good brass is available. I couldn't give two squirts of urine if factory ammo is available or not, can I get good brass without a lot of trouble is my only concern when considering a new cartridge.
tikkat3270wsm
Well-Known Member
Have you tried powder pro 2000? I have gotten my best groups with the heavier stuff with that. The 6.5 twist WC barrel I have does well from Berger 80's up to the Sierra 95gr. Does ok with the 75gr SMK with CFE 223. Mine is built on a PSA lower, Aero upper. Nice Rig you have there!
I will always choose the mighty swift. It's my go to critter getter.I have the following rifles on hand currently in .224 caliber (other than ARs with 5.56/.223).
So I find myself weighing pros and cons of each of the rifles I own and now the 22 Creedmoor is on the scene. I'm not sure it offers anything over the Swift or the 22-250 AI but it has to be considered I think.
- Remington 700 VSSF clone in 220 Swift. I bought a takeoff factory barrel several years ago. I finally got around to buying an HS Precision Sendero stock direct from Remington before the bankruptcy and I bought a 700 stainless LA action. Had my gunsmith fit up/headspace the barrel; none of the factory barrel stamping are clocked correct but we wanted to see if it would shoot first. Well, with factory Hornady 50 grain Vmax ammo the thing shoots in the .3 range consistently! I don't Varmint hunt and it has a 14 twist barrel so options are limited there.
- I also have a semi custom 22-250 AI with a R700 receiver that has been trued up, Bartlein Remington Varmint contour 5R 7 twist stainless barrel, McMillan hunter stock, Jewell trigger, Magpul DBM
I've been consistently moving away from factory rifles and semi custom rifles and thinning down to just the ones I want/need.
My heart tells me to sell both and build another 22-250AI with a fast twist barrel, properly throated for heavy Bergers and configured the way I would want it.
- So the 220 Swift is a nostalgia cartridge for me and it shoots exceptionally well. But it's handicapped by sub par brass (to me) and the 14 twist barrel is less than ideal for my needs. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself it needs to go. And I find myself wanting to rebarrel it and make in an AI as well; which is probably a fool's errand.
- While I really like the looks of my 22-250AI, it's losing its luster in its current configuration to me.
- Do I really want a Creedmoor? GAG.
It's no secret I love me some improved cartridges.
Sorry for the late night rambling, just looking for additional thoughts.
Y'all aren't making this any easier ya know. 
I really like both rifles. As it sits right now the Swift has more downsides than the 22-250 AI.
Maybe I'll just sell the barreled action on the 22-250AI and rebuild with a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action and Proof barrel. Still keep it 7 twist.
Hmmmmm…..
I really like both rifles. As it sits right now the Swift has more downsides than the 22-250 AI.
Maybe I'll just sell the barreled action on the 22-250AI and rebuild with a Kelbly Atlas Tactical action and Proof barrel. Still keep it 7 twist.
Hmmmmm…..
I'm running fast today, but did I miss a question in all of this?I have the following rifles on hand currently in .224 caliber (other than ARs with 5.56/.223).
So I find myself weighing pros and cons of each of the rifles I own and now the 22 Creedmoor is on the scene. I'm not sure it offers anything over the Swift or the 22-250 AI but it has to be considered I think.
- Remington 700 VSSF clone in 220 Swift. I bought a takeoff factory barrel several years ago. I finally got around to buying an HS Precision Sendero stock direct from Remington before the bankruptcy and I bought a 700 stainless LA action. Had my gunsmith fit up/headspace the barrel; none of the factory barrel stamping are clocked correct but we wanted to see if it would shoot first. Well, with factory Hornady 50 grain Vmax ammo the thing shoots in the .3 range consistently! I don't Varmint hunt and it has a 14 twist barrel so options are limited there.
- I also have a semi custom 22-250 AI with a R700 receiver that has been trued up, Bartlein Remington Varmint contour 5R 7 twist stainless barrel, McMillan hunter stock, Jewell trigger, Magpul DBM
I've been consistently moving away from factory rifles and semi custom rifles and thinning down to just the ones I want/need.
My heart tells me to sell both and build another 22-250AI with a fast twist barrel, properly throated for heavy Bergers and configured the way I would want it.
- So the 220 Swift is a nostalgia cartridge for me and it shoots exceptionally well. But it's handicapped by sub par brass (to me) and the 14 twist barrel is less than ideal for my needs. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself it needs to go. And I find myself wanting to rebarrel it and make in an AI as well; which is probably a fool's errand.
- While I really like the looks of my 22-250AI, it's losing its luster in its current configuration to me.
- Do I really want a Creedmoor? GAG.
It's no secret I love me some improved cartridges.
Sorry for the late night rambling, just looking for additional thoughts.
IME the best reason to AI isn't for speed it's to reduce borderline stop trimming!
