210 vs. 215 primers

[Reloader222]

Alibiivi - In more than 30 years of reloading I never had any misfire from any Federal primers, but from other brands I had some in my .357Mag Marlin Rifle. Generally Federal primer's cups are softer than other brands and would ignite much easier with weaker firing pin springs.

In general - Remember that Federal Primers is regarded as a hotter primers when compared with other primers brands - so when changing from Standard 210 primers to 215Magnum primers you need to reduce the load definitely with a minimum 2% and use a chrono to compare. This is the general rule with all brands of primers.

 

[Jared2700]

One thing to note is magnum primers have a thicker cup, and a larger charge. But don't have anymore power than a few more grains of power when used for loading. That has been what I have personally seen when using them for loading in the past. I have used magnum pistol as well in the past with good results in a 223 rem. As they have the same amount of charge And a thicker cup like the small rifle primer. And I also have used magnum larger primers in calibers in 308, 3006 and 270 with good results especially when using slower burning powders like 4831, reloaded 22, ECT. I also remember using them because I had read about it in my Lyman reloading manual. I believe if I'm not mistaken it said to reduce the load by 2% as well. I just remembered using 3 to 5 grains less in my larger rifles. And it seems that the magnum pistol were the same as rifle when compared over my chronograph. Never had I seen a pressure sign when reducing the load 3 to 5 grains in my large rifle cartridges. Use common sense and start with a minimum load minus the 2% and work your way up. That way you will be safer and you will see the pressure signs way before you blow up your gun or can't open your bolt. I say if you are not a component reloaded to never deviate from the manuel. Unless it is a emergency situation and you and your family lives depend on it. But I have over 35 years of reloading experience, and have experimented with tons of different loads, and configurations there of. The best practice is doing it right by the book. Unless you are trying to get optimum results using caution and starting with a 2% less of a minimum load specifications. Use your head don't loose it. Good luck in all your endeavors. God bless you and yours.

 

[Dean2]

I use magnum primers in ALL hunting loads to ensure good ignition in -40 weather. I develop and test loads in the summer using a Chronograph, then retest them at -20. I have had CCI mag primers fail to ignite, (you open the case and the partially ignited powder is all clumped up in the case so you know the primer went off) or click booms in large capacity cases like the 7 RUM. Anything that uses 65 grains or more gets Fed 215 or Win Mag primers, those under get CCI Mag primers. For target loads shot in the summer I will use regular primers but not for hunting loads.

A hotter burning primer has both increase flame heat and a longer duration of burn and will usually give you more velocity and higher pressure but it does not change the burn rate of the powder. I do not believe the comment about it causing powder to fully burn in the case while a regular primer has the powder burn further down the barrel. That is controlled by the powder burn rate, not the brisience, or duration of the primer.

If you vary any component in a published load, primer, bullet, case make or gun used you need to start low and work up. Since you will never be shooting the same batch that was actually tested it means all published loads are GUIDELINES. To use them safely you need to use the velocity, SD, and ES to judge your own loads and gun. By the time primers flatten, pockets expand, ejector marks show up or heads expand you are already WAY past recommended pressures.

So long story short, yes you can use the 215s just be careful as always when working up the load.

 

[Sflutes]

The 215s are significantly "hotter" than the 210s. Yes, you'll want to back these off and work the loads back up again with the new primers.

My recommendation woulf be to save these for a larger case or a real magnum that can benefit from the 215s. Accuracy will likely suffer a bit in a 308, as this is just more ignition than you need in the smaller case. Excessive ignition and best accuracy just don't go hand in hand.

 

[Jared2700]

I use magnum primers in ALL hunting loads to ensure good ignition in -40 weather. I develop and test loads in the summer using a Chronograph, then retest them at -20. I have had CCI mag primers fail to ignite, (you open the case and the partially ignited powder is all clumped up in the case so you know the primer went off) or click booms in large capacity cases like the 7 RUM. Anything that uses 65 grains or more gets Fed 215 or Win Mag primers, those under get CCI Mag primers. For target loads shot in the summer I will use regular primers but not for hunting loads.

A hotter burning primer has both increase flame heat and a longer duration of burn and will usually give you more velocity and higher pressure but it does not change the burn rate of the powder. I do not believe the comment about it causing powder to fully burn in the case while a regular primer has the powder burn further down the barrel. That is controlled by the powder burn rate, not the brisience, or duration of the primer.

If you vary any component in a published load, primer, bullet, case make or gun used you need to start low and work up. Since you will never be shooting the same batch that was actually tested it means all published loads are GUIDELINES. To use them safely you need to use the velocity, SD, and ES to judge your own loads and gun. By the time primers flatten, pockets expand, ejector marks show up or heads expand you are already WAY past recommended pressures.

So long story short, yes you can use the 215s just be careful as always when working up the load.

Wanted to say I couldn't say it better about the powder burn rate being the same, other than the primer being hotter so there is a need for a reduced load. It may help to ignite the powder more uniformly, as that has been my experience. Just use caution when starting a load with a drop in the load of at least 2%. God bless!!!

 

[theosmithjr]

I use magnum primers in ALL hunting loads to ensure good ignition in -40 weather. I develop and test loads in the summer using a Chronograph, then retest them at -20. I have had CCI mag primers fail to ignite, (you open the case and the partially ignited powder is all clumped up in the case so you know the primer went off) or click booms in large capacity cases like the 7 RUM. Anything that uses 65 grains or more gets Fed 215 or Win Mag primers, those under get CCI Mag primers. For target loads shot in the summer I will use regular primers but not for hunting loads.

A hotter burning primer has both increase flame heat and a longer duration of burn and will usually give you more velocity and higher pressure but it does not change the burn rate of the powder. I do not believe the comment about it causing powder to fully burn in the case while a regular primer has the powder burn further down the barrel. That is controlled by the powder burn rate, not the brisience, or duration of the primer.

If you vary any component in a published load, primer, bullet, case make or gun used you need to start low and work up. Since you will never be shooting the same batch that was actually tested it means all published loads are GUIDELINES. To use them safely you need to use the velocity, SD, and ES to judge your own loads and gun. By the time primers flatten, pockets expand, ejector marks show up or heads expand you are already WAY past recommended pressures.

So long story short, yes you can use the 215s just be careful as always when working up the load.

Your comments are well taken sir. However in my opinion and for safety sake, I stand by my words! Example; my 6-284 uses 50grs. of Hogdon 4831 to send the Sierra 107gr. HPBT Match bullet outta the muzzle at 3,333 - 3,335fps. This load was developed in 90 degree weather. Therefore it is SAFE in ANY WEATHER. Using the RULE of THUMB that you gain 1 fps or lose 1 fps with the rise or fall of temperatures from the temperature the load was developed at. There are EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE! In your case sir, the temperatures you described are EXTREME. From SUMMER temperatures developement of the load to -20 & -40 degree weather is EXTREME in any case! In your case sir, that reflects a deviation in Velocity of 90 to 130 fps. Not to mention CHAMBER PRESSURES. The burn rate of the powder NEVER CHANGES; however using a Stick of Dynamite to ignite what ONLY REQUIRES a Firecracker is SERIOUS & UNSAFE OVERKILL! You've obviously loaded and fired these altered loads without incident or injury. THANK GOD! And you obviously live, load, shoot & hunt in an EXTREME ENVIOREMENT with EXTREME TEMPERATURE CHANGES! Its worked for YOU, SO FAR; however the RULES of SAFE, CONSISTANT HANDLOADING DICTATE OTHERWISE! I stand by my ORIGINAL POST incase some NEWBIE reads yours and ends up LOSING HIS EYE from HIGH VELOCITY PRESSURE BLAST THRU the FIRING PIN BOLT ASSEMBLY or WORSE! IT'S HAPPENED! Thankfully NOT to YOU sir. Theosmithjr

 

[Knight]

Why complicate the matter. If it ain't broke Don't fix it. There are no short cuts, it's like trying to reinvent the wheel. Unless we are at war and there are no other options, Just buy a few thousand Federal 210 A primers and enjoy shooting.

 

[Dean2]

Your comments are well taken sir. However in my opinion and for safety sake, I stand by my words! Example; my 6-284 uses 50grs. of Hogdon 4831 to send the Sierra 107gr. HPBT Match bullet outta the muzzle at 3,333 - 3,335fps. This load was developed in 90 degree weather. Therefore it is SAFE in ANY WEATHER. Using the RULE of THUMB that you gain 1 fps or lose 1 fps with the rise or fall of temperatures from the temperature the load was developed at. There are EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE! In your case sir, the temperatures you described are EXTREME. From SUMMER temperatures developement of the load to -20 & -40 degree weather is EXTREME in any case! In your case sir, that reflects a deviation in Velocity of 90 to 130 fps. Not to mention CHAMBER PRESSURES. The burn rate of the powder NEVER CHANGES; however using a Stick of Dynamite to ignite what ONLY REQUIRES a Firecracker is SERIOUS & UNSAFE OVERKILL! You've obviously loaded and fired these altered loads without incident or injury. THANK GOD! And you obviously live, load, shoot & hunt in an EXTREME ENVIOREMENT with EXTREME TEMPERATURE CHANGES! Its worked for YOU, SO FAR; however the RULES of SAFE, CONSISTANT HANDLOADING DICTATE OTHERWISE! I stand by my ORIGINAL POST incase some NEWBIE reads yours and ends up LOSING HIS EYE from HIGH VELOCITY PRESSURE BLAST THRU the FIRING PIN BOLT ASSEMBLY or WORSE! IT'S HAPPENED! Thankfully NOT to YOU sir. Theosmithjr

What you are expressing is opinion, not fact. Magnum primers are not a stick of Dynamite, they are simply a more robust primer. Using a magnum primer is no more likely to cause high pressure issues than a hotter batch of the same powder. The primer is just one component in the loading/pressure equation. A smaller capacity case, military vs commercial brass, can and does cause a larger change in pressure. If you test your loads in +80 weather and again in -20 as I do, you will most certainly have a safe load. If the load produces safe pressure and velocity, small SD and ES at +80 it is not going to be over pressure at -20. You are free to do as you like but spreading irrational fear is not helpful.

This was written by Allan Jones who works for CCI/Speer. He develops and tests their primers:

Most primer makers offer a standard and a Magnum primer in each size and application. The Magnum primer offers more power for challenging ignition scenarios. A large-capacity case, a heavily deterred propellant, or extremely cold weather (less than 20 degrees Fahrenheit) typically makes the Magnum primer desirable.

The whole article can be found here

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079

Also, if you call the help line and talk to the Hodgdon loading department they will tell you essentially the same thing.

 

[theosmithjr]

What you are expressing is opinion, not fact. Magnum primers are not a stick of Dynamite, they are simply a more robust primer. Using a magnum primer is no more likely to cause high pressure issues than a hotter batch of the same powder. The primer is just one component in the loading/pressure equation. A smaller capacity case, military vs commercial brass, can and does cause a larger change in pressure. If you test your loads in +80 weather and again in -20 as I do, you will most certainly have a safe load. If the load produces safe pressure and velocity, small SD and ES at +80 it is not going to be over pressure at -20. You are free to do as you like but spreading irrational fear is not helpful.

This was written by Allan Jones who works for CCI/Speer. He develops and tests their primers:



The whole artifice can be found here

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079

Also, if you call the help line and talk to the Hodgdon loading department they will tell you essentially the same thing.

I'm NOT ARGUING Sir, I merely stating my Opinion from My Experience. Anyone one of you can and will do as you see fit. If you wanna take it to the NEXT LEVEL; Why don't you simply call FEDERAL, which is VISTA OUTDOORS in ANOKA, MINNESOTA and ask their TECH the same question on this THREAD! SEE WHAT HE TELLS YOU! I'm over & out on this THREAD. STAY SAFE ALL, SHOOT STRAIGHT! Theosmithjr

 

[theosmithjr]

What you are expressing is opinion, not fact. Magnum primers are not a stick of Dynamite, they are simply a more robust primer. Using a magnum primer is no more likely to cause high pressure issues than a hotter batch of the same powder. The primer is just one component in the loading/pressure equation. A smaller capacity case, military vs commercial brass, can and does cause a larger change in pressure. If you test your loads in +80 weather and again in -20 as I do, you will most certainly have a safe load. If the load produces safe pressure and velocity, small SD and ES at +80 it is not going to be over pressure at -20. You are free to do as you like but spreading irrational fear is not helpful.

This was written by Allan Jones who works for CCI/Speer. He develops and tests their primers:



The whole artifice can be found here

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079

Also, if you call the help line and talk to the Hodgdon loading department they will tell you essentially the same thing.

I SAID ALL ALONG "MY OPINION"! I ALSO said depending WHAT POWDERS USED! PUT a MAG PRIMER in VhitaVohri N135 or N133 & SEE WHAT HAPPENS! I hope you've taken all the Photos you want before and have PAID UP your Life Insurance Policy. Theosmithjr

 

[theosmithjr]

What you are expressing is opinion, not fact. Magnum primers are not a stick of Dynamite, they are simply a more robust primer. Using a magnum primer is no more likely to cause high pressure issues than a hotter batch of the same powder. The primer is just one component in the loading/pressure equation. A smaller capacity case, military vs commercial brass, can and does cause a larger change in pressure. If you test your loads in +80 weather and again in -20 as I do, you will most certainly have a safe load. If the load produces safe pressure and velocity, small SD and ES at +80 it is not going to be over pressure at -20. You are free to do as you like but spreading irrational fear is not helpful.

This was written by Allan Jones who works for CCI/Speer. He develops and tests their primers:



The whole artifice can be found here

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079

Also, if you call the help line and talk to the Hodgdon loading department they will tell you essentially the same thing.

I suggest YOU RE-READ MY POST. I stated a load developed at 90 degrees is safe at any LOWER TEMP. IF you CHRONY that Load you'll see as a RULE OF THUMB that you gain 1 fps per degree in increased temp. And lose 1 fps. per degree in falling temps. Please Learn to COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ BEFORE YOU ACCUSE OF One of SPREADING FALSE FEAR. SPEAKING of DANGER, this ENTIRE THREAD GOES AGAINST EVERY RELOADING MANUELS INSTRUCTIONS! Theosmithjr