208 ELDM, 300 WM. Hunting approved?

[entoptics]

I've seen variations on this question all over the inter webs, but thought I'd ask again.

My rifle just won't shoot anything better than the ELD-M 208. The Berger 210-215 gr offerings are close, but not close enough to justify the 50% price increase for someone who shoots as much as me, especially when the main hunting advertisement for Bergers is explosive fragmentation...

My question is, does anyone here have any REAL WORLD experience with 208 ELD bullets on big game (deer/elk or tougher). Ballistic gel tests would be helpful too. I've seen all sorts of ELD Match results on game, but they tend to be 6.5 caliber. I don't give a crap what a tiny little 147 6.5 will do to a deer at pellet gun velocities...

My theory is that, with a 30 cal at impact velocities of >2000 fps, even if the things grenade, there's still 208 grains of shrapnel (e.g. Bergers). If they don't explode like Bergers, and simply deform and tumble (aka. M193 Ball in an M4), that's still a couple thousand ftlbs of disruption.

My main concern is if they "ice pick". It's no less ethical than archery hunting, but I'd prefer to find jello inside, or at least a golf ball sized exit, than wait in hiding while the animal bleeds out from a 30 cal spear.

 

[jpd676]

I have been shooting the 208 Amax for years in .308, 300wsm and 300 WM. I still have a stock pile of them so I haven't shot the ELD M version yet. I'm told the ELD M is the Amax with a new heat resistent tip. The 208 Amax has performed exceptionally well for me on deer, elk and antelope at ranges from 60 yards (elk) to 725 (elk). I swear by them and I'm sure the ELD M is the same thing.

 

[entoptics]

The 208 Amax has performed exceptionally well for me on deer, elk and antelope at ranges from 60 yards (elk) to 725 (elk). I swear by them and I'm sure the ELD M is the same thing.

Any recovered bullets or other data? Note anything while dressing the animals?

I hope the AMAX-ELDM construction difference truly does only involve the tip. There's a fair amount of anecdotal evidence the 208 AMAX is a fine choice for big animals.

 

[jpd676]

In some animals I've recovered the jacket with a tiny bit of lead left. Most every time there is massive damage starting about 3" inside. The Amax typically performs like a Berger; they come apart and cause a huge wound chanel. I've never lost an animal to one but I haven't had a bad hit either.

 

[JemezDave]

If your looking for groups on paper shoot a match bullet, but for game use a hunting bullet or get a rifle that will shoot them

 

[Joefrazell]

Btw not to cause a argument but I've had baseball size exit holes with archery equipment. Fixed blade. Nothing shot right with a bow wI'll go more then 10-15 seconds at most.

 

[Deleted member 102985]

Hi, I have a recent expirence with the 212 ELDM out of my 300 lapua. 1287 yards on a big 6x7 bull bullet performed perfectly. Bull took 3 steps and looked around and fell over dead . The chest cavity was full of red jelly. Never recovered the bullet but hit one rib and went clear thru. Massive internal damage I have shot Berger's for years still use the 338 300 grain elite Hunter. But for the money and results I have seen I am a huge fan.

 

[Sevy]

I have used the 225 ELD-m on an elk and will say that it was devastating. I believe it mostly exploded inside. Small entrance and no exit,I found a 38gr piece of lead against the hide on the offside, nothing but vital soup between the shoulders. 830 yards impact velocity of about 1950.
He didn't go more than 20 yards before he rolled.

 

[Wolf76]

I can't believe the price of the bullet is even a consideration.
This is an unethical thought IMO.

Most of the 200+gr 30 Cal bullets do great when placed properly. The Bergers have a great record, but that doesn't mean other bullets are bad.

 

[Deleted member 102985]

Not saying they are. Just the opposite actually. The eldm works great with great results. My statement was I like them both but if you shoot as much as I do why pay twice the price for a Berger when the ELDM has the same or better results?

 

[entoptics]

I can't believe the price of the bullet is even a consideration.
This is an unethical thought IMO.

I wasn't referring to the price for one bullet on a game animal in my OP. I was referring to the cost to shoot a thousand rounds at paper and steel. If the same bullet that does that, could also be used on game, then all the practice is directly transferrable. If I have to develop a load and verify drops/wind on a whole different bullet style, then so be it, I'd just prefer not to.

 

[shaughn]

Price is always a consideration..no ethics about it...hunting shooting comes far down the list...when budgeting...x box of bullets cost 75 dollars per 100 or per 50 and Y bullet which might have a bit more variation lot per lot cost 50 per 100 but works...

Which bullet are you going to choose? do you want to shoot a lot and become proficient or do you fire the bare minimum and come game day hope you have your A game on.

If you want to tie price with ethics...what bullet are you shooting..Hammer? Lapua? Berger? Swift? Woodleigh? RWS? some custom lathe turned limited production bullet..that runs at dollars per tip?

If you are using Hornady or Speer, bulk Winchester or Remington..perhaps Prvi Partizan all of which can be found at a price point a lot less than some of the aforementioned...does that make the end user unethical....

 

[duckhunter175]

Haven't used a 208 on an elk. But I shot the 140gr Amax out of a 6.5x284 on deer and it was devastating.

Shot 5 whitetail deer with 168gr Amax with my .308 and only one ran (hit through the lungs) and he made it about 30 yards, chest cavity was jelly. Only had one where the bullet did not pass through and it was lodged into the offside shoulder.

Shot a red stag spike with the same .308 168gr Amax from 70 yards. I tucked it in right behind his shoulder. He barely flinched, turned away from me... and tipped over.

I'm sure that a bullet nearly 25% heavier and going 15% faster will do just fine on elk and most definitely deer as long as your shot placement is good.

 

[Wolf76]

Price is always a consideration..no ethics about it...hunting shooting comes far down the list...when budgeting...x box of bullets cost 75 dollars per 100 or per 50 and Y bullet which might have a bit more variation lot per lot cost 50 per 100 but works...

Which bullet are you going to choose? do you want to shoot a lot and become proficient or do you fire the bare minimum and come game day hope you have your A game on.

If you want to tie price with ethics...what bullet are you shooting..Hammer? Lapua? Berger? Swift? Woodleigh? RWS? some custom lathe turned limited production bullet..that runs at dollars per tip?

If you are using Hornady or Speer, bulk Winchester or Remington..perhaps Prvi Partizan all of which can be found at a price point a lot less than some of the aforementioned...does that make the end user unethical....

Since you asked, I'll respond.
Price plays a role in nearly every decision. Sometimes you need to pay more when the circumstances justify it. The OP is shooting a 300 WM. This cartridge is very often not a high volume cartridge like a 223. The barrel life usually doesn't allow for 2000 rounds and is pricier to shoot than a 270/308. The original inquiry was about shooting animals. The requirements to kill paper is ever so slightly different.
What I'm not thrilled with in the discussion is the price difference part. Midway has both bullets mentioned in stock and on sale. 208 hornady reg price $41, 210 berger reg price $56. This is per 100 bulets. A whopping $15 saved per 100 shots. That's a $3 per box savings. You could save more than that buying bulk/ on sale. Is that really enough to justify risking bullet performance? I'd suggest accuracy, application, and bullet construction are far more important than the small difference in price.
As for bulk Winchester Remington and the like, they all have their place. Rabbits, deer and coyotes don't need much, but if you were hunting grizzly bear on foot, would you let $15 per 100 bullets influence your decision?
If the bullet fails and the animal is never recovered, was it worth it?
Let me be clear, I have nothing against hornady bullets and use the sst + ftx bullets. Curious why the OP is shooting a match bullet vs. the hunting line of X bullets.
Good luck, I'm done and won't be commenting any further.