150 lrab performance on deer

[elkaholic]

Very interesting. We just had a customer harvest a deer with our 101g blackout bullet loaded in a 308win. He is running the bullet at very high vel near 3400fps. He shot a deer in the shoulder at 60y with violent results and not much penetration. The recovered bullet was just under 70% retention. We designed this bullet to open at low vel. His impact vel had to be at least 3200fps. I am chalking this one up to high impact speed, low sectional density, with a large hollow point to quickly start expansion.

Rich,

These things don't line up with what you just had happen. To my thinking a bullet that does not stay on path after impact in under stabilized. It could possibly be due to the bullet loosing so much of its weight that the remainder was so oddly shaped that it could not maintain direction. I think it shed so much weight on impact that it lost all of its sectional density.

Steve

Normally I would have to agree and that is why I find it so puzzling! The rifle has an 8,5 twist and should easily stabilize that bullet. I found NO evidence at all of pieces of jacket or lead and I looked things over very well. I have seen things happen with bullets and game over the years that sometimes just never make sense, and I guess this is one of them.

Now let me explain to Harperc why I asked HIM to explain Somehow when he asked "which way it turned" it stuck in my mind that he was referring to the deer? Ya, I know, it probably has something to do with me closing in on 70 Sorry Harperc! I thought there must be something I had missed all these years!
Duh!........Rich

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Normally I would have to agree and that is why I find it so puzzling! The rifle has an 8,5 twist and should easily stabilize that bullet. I found NO evidence at all of pieces of jacket or lead and I looked things over very well. I have seen things happen with bullets and game over the years that sometimes just never make sense, and I guess this is one of them.

Now let me explain to Harperc why I asked HIM to explain Somehow when he asked "which way it turned" it stuck in my mind that he was referring to the deer? Ya, I know, it probably has something to do with me closing in on 70 Sorry Harperc! I thought there must be something I had missed all these years!
Duh!........Rich

Yup. I was pretty sure that you had that bullet fully stabilized. The destruction that the deer shoulder shows indicates that the bullet came apart very quickly. Loosing its shape and weight to the point of not being able to stay on path. They advertise 3200fps as max impact speed. You were under that. Looks like it should be lower max impact speed. May never see that again. Bullets sometimes do weird things.

Coyotezapper,

Yes I agree. The little 101g blackout bullet is designed for easy opening at low vel for the blackout cartridge. Slower moving bullets will tend to have deeper penetration. I think that data that we just got from the deer hit at high vel is an indication of not enough sectional density. He is going to shoot another deer for the sake of science. Hopefully a bit further out to see how that does.

This little blackout bullet is different that the rest of our bullets in design. It is a very short bearing surface, with a proportionally long nose. Designed to not take up any case capacity in order to maximize vel. We designed it with a pointy nose for the tacticool aspect. We may have to give a max vel impact for hunting on this one.

Steve

 

[HARPERC]

......Now let me explain to Harperc why I asked HIM to explain Somehow when he asked "which way it turned" it stuck in my mind that he was referring to the deer? Ya, I know, it probably has something to do with me closing in on 70 Sorry Harperc! I thought there must be something I had missed all these years!...........Duh!........Rich

I think it's this computer-I'm always certain what's in my head then I read it!

 

[elkaholic]

I think it's this computer-I'm always certain what's in my head then I read it!

Oh Good! I feel much better........rich

 

[HARPERC]

What do you use for testing?

I haven't pondered it recently, Gary Sciuchetti (apologies if I butchered the name) tested pretty much all the .308 180 grain bullets available at that time, and put together an excellent chart. Shows a lot of of what can happen.

We had 2, 6mm Partitions turn on us, seemed to have collapsed at the partition. Small deer.

Had a 225, .338 Barnes turn sideways on a very large hog shoulder, it didn't hit square on the nose, and bent also.

I've seen pictures in old African hunting books of bent solids. So it's something that's happened along the way.

 

[elkaholic]

What do you use for testing?

I haven't pondered it recently, Gary Sciuchetti (apologies if I butchered the name) tested pretty much all the .308 180 grain bullets available at that time, and put together an excellent chart. Shows a lot of of what can happen.

We had 2, 6mm Partitions turn on us, seemed to have collapsed at the partition. Small deer.

Had a 225, .338 Barnes turn sideways on a very large hog shoulder, it didn't hit square on the nose, and bent also.

I've seen pictures in old African hunting books of bent solids. So it's something that's happened along the way.

I have seen numerous, what I call banana bullets, when I have tested in media. It happens almost every time a vld, or even a spitzer, hollow point does not open. The Sierra matchkings are famous for it because they don't open as easily as the Berger vld's......Rich

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I've seen a 225gr TSX from a 338LM track straight through get to the opposite side then travel under the hide until it exited infront of the hind leg. Shoot was 200 yards away.

 

[HARPERC]

......I have seen numerous, what I call banana bullets ...........

Same here.....One of these days I'll have to sort out, the differences in flat, round, snd spitzers.

 

[Rich Coyle]

elkaholic,

I think Nosler should take a lesson from Hornady with this bullet. The Hornady tech told me the impact velocity with the ELD-X should be below 2,500 feet per second.

 

[coyotezapper]

elkaholic,

I think Nosler should take a lesson from Hornady with this bullet. The Hornady tech told me the impact velocity with the ELD-X should be below 2,500 feet per second.

Apples and oranges, they are not the same design but I understand your statement. The Nosler has a performance window of 1300-3200 fps with 3200 being suspect. The ELD-X will probably perform like the original Interlock and will only work down to 1800 fps. You have to decide what best fits your hunting criteria.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Apples and oranges, they are not the same design but I understand your statement. The Nosler has a performance window of 1300-3200 fps with 3200 being suspect. The ELD-X will probably perform like the original Interlock and will only work down to 1800 fps. You have to decide what best fits your hunting criteria.

I sold all my Nosler LRB's and Hornady ELD-X's. Where I hunt I can get shots from thirteen steps to 600 yards. For my 6.5mm I switched to Barnes 127 LRX and Nosler 140 AB's.

 

[coyotezapper]

I sold all my Nosler LRB's and Hornady ELD-X's. Where I hunt I can get shots from thirteen steps to 600 yards. For my 6.5mm I switched to Barnes 127 LRX and Nosler 140 AB's.

Very good decision IMO.

 

[elkaholic]

Apples and oranges, they are not the same design but I understand your statement. The Nosler has a performance window of 1300-3200 fps with 3200 being suspect. The ELD-X will probably perform like the original Interlock and will only work down to 1800 fps. You have to decide what best fits your hunting criteria.

I think that 3200' on the LRAB is worse than suspect. I also think the ELDX will expand down to 1300' or very near that from my testing. Time will tell whether the ELDX will be better at high velocity impact, but I think it will........Rich

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We were curious about the high vel impact of the little blackout bullet yesterday. So we decided to see what it would do at 3400fps. Loaded a full load in 30-06 with a 10" twist. Shot it into lined up milk jugs at 25'. It completely opened up in the 1st jug then tracked true through the rest of the jugs and did not stop. Not sure how that deer stopped one. We then tried it with one jug and tight news paper to stop it for inspection. The tight dry paper caused the bullet to yaw as it stopped. The shank of this bullet is so small/short compared to our other bullets that I am not sure what to think. I think we are going to have to start working with gel. So time consuming and expensive.

Wildcatter,

Go whack another deer for the sake of science. I look forward to your results.

Steve