1000 Yard + group size

[dragman]

Personally in the long range hunting game, I feel that how close to your point of aim you can be is more important than the group size you can print.

This isn't long range BR. A group size will tell you how accurate your equipment is, but says very little about your ability to read the conditions and adjust accordingly.

I shot my best 1000yrd group just a few weeks ago, but never even measured it. What got me more exited was the fact that it was within a few inches of the spot on the gong.

I agree with you as it's not a measure of how good of a hunter you are just how accurate your equipment is, but that was the point. I wanted to know what kind of "POSSIBLE" group you need to see from your rifle before your comfortable with taking it long for hunting. While you have to get premium conditions it's nice to verify those things so that when the deer, Groundhog, etc walks out you are confident on the shot.

 

[SavageShtr]

I put a load together for my 300wsm that put 5 shots in less than a half inch at 100 yards. I took it out groundhog hunting with my son and his first shot ever behind the rifle or hunting for that matter was dead on at 665 yards. Needless to say I was a very happy Dad. I since have not had a chance to test it on the steel to see how it does farther out. I'm pretty sure it will be fine.. I have gotten caught up with trying to achieve those small groups at 1000 yards and have wasted countless bullets and pounds of powder trying. What I have come to realize is that if I take all the proper readings with my Kestrel, and have the right powder temp variation in my program and do the proper practice I should be fine. I really like the summer time to practice on those pesky groundhogs, I figure if I can hit them way out there than a deer should be a little easier..

 

[FearNoWind]

... You guys that are bragging about all of your 5 inch, 1000 yard groups, I'm glad you can shoot so well and think you should be shooting competition ! ...

You're absolutely correct, Phil. But keep in mind that the OP asked "what kind of group are you looking for? He added the factor of premium conditions.
I do shoot competition and a five inch group at 1K is still on my bucket list. But an 8 inch group isn't uncommon and, as a hunter, I won't take a shot at anything further away than I can consistently and accurately hold an 8 inch group.

 

[paphil]

My best ever measured group was at Harry Jones Memorial in May of 2012 if anyone wants to look up the results, it was a 4.24 , 5 shot with my 6.5-284 sendero with a Hart barrel. I shot four or five times after that in competition and never did that well again. Must have been beginners luck as it was my first match! That gun really shot well, ,one of the first groups after barrel break in and some load development was a three shot ragged hole at 300 yards. The first long shot on game was a 1187 yard shot on a groundhog and over three following weeks , I killed a total of four hogs at that hole with a total of five shots, the longest was 1208, everyone gets lucky once in a while! I looked up Ridgeways club and the varmint competition sounds really interesting, I will have to drive up there and try that out . I have no intention of critizing anyone and any knowledge that I have, I will share with anyone who asks. I've shot enough to understand the problems of wind and poor ammo and feel the proof of ability is in the shooting and conditions are the biggest factor in missed shots.

 

[paphil]

One other thought, the most important shot is that first, cold bore shot. It is the one that matters in a hunting situation and if it isn't in your group , the group doesn't matter! Reserve a 1000 yard target for a couple of days and shoot only one shot each day cold bore! For hunting, that is the group that matters!

 

[dragman]

For hunting I completely agree that first cold bore shot being on the mark is really what matters not the group. Long range target is what I prefer well that and shooting those ground hogs. I think checking a gun at distance for group for it's ability with your loads and your shooting ability is something that is a must.
I limit it to 3 shots and usually do it right at day brake so that the conditions are as close to perfect as it can be. I have had many guns shoot in the 2" or very close too it at 1000. but as I said before that is not "competition" spread over 5 shots in a competition who knows what those groups would grow too.

Point of the thread.
who checks there long range hunting gun for group at 1000 yards + and what do you like to see for size over 3 shots in the perfect conditions.

 

[yobuck]

One other thought, the most important shot is that first, cold bore shot. It is the one that matters in a hunting situation and if it isn't in your group , the group doesn't matter! Reserve a 1000 yard target for a couple of days and shoot only one shot each day cold bore! For hunting, that is the group that matters!

I dont agree with you on that at all. I do think we should strive to get a first round hit however.
First off you know the exact distance to your target and have had prior experience shooting at it. You never know when and where an animal will show up and for how long.
Then there is also the excitment or nervous factor. Wether i kill it on the first or
third shot is of little consequence to me. Would i rather kill it on the first? Sure i would, but again its hunting. Even the experts carry more than one round with them. This is not really a he man or leave it to the expert shooter type thing.
Many of our deer have been killed by young kids or adults with no prior experience.
The first round cold bore thing is a rather recent challenge for hunting. No doubt new products have made it easier to accomplish. But we are simply hunters, not snipers whoes lives might depend upon that. For those who are serious about it thats fine with me. I'll offer another challenge. Shoot once and walk away if you miss. lol

 

[bowhunthard88]

I've honestly never measured long range group sizes with a ruler or caliper, as I usually shoot hanging AR500 plates at distance. However, I have photos of groups at 800+ in the ~2.5" size for 3 shots, IN ABSOLUTE PERFECT CONDITIONS. It doesn't happen all the time, unfortunately . That being said, when shooting for groups, I try to strive for 1/2 MOA or less, it doesn't always happen, but it gives me something to shoot for!

If your rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA or less at 100 yds., extreme velocity spread is tight, and the bullet is stabilized to the POI range: your rifle should be capable of 1/2 MOA!!! That being said, shooter error/calculation, etc. plays a big part! Try for what your rifle is capable at 100 yds., but definitely don't expect that all the time. I would say to be satisfied with 1 MOA to start and work from there.

Again, group size at distance is not as important to me as first round hits and being "spot on", but it is very nice to see great groups. I usually stop measuring exact group size at 300+. I do shoot a few matches, but mostly groundhog/coyote/whitetail hunt and put my time in behind the rifle in the off season.

Have fun! Accuracy is what drives most of us here I believe, and I for one am still searching for the absolute holy grail .

 

[Ernie]

I wish I could keep all my groups under 5" for 5-shots @ 1k-Don't we all???
1K shooting is about conditions, conditions, conditions for me.

Best 5-shot groups with specialty pistols @ 1K matches: 5.25" with a MOA Maximum, 15" barrel and a external hammer (talk about slow lock time), and 3.871 with a specialty pistol set-up for BR shooting. I shoot about 1 1K match per year.

I can do better in good conditions when shooting only 3-shots for sure.

Just because I can shoot a .25 MOA group at 100 does not mean I can 2.50" group at 1K-If it was only that easy

Shot placement on the target is very important for me.

Two and three shot groups on "proven guns" are going to give me the realistic capability of myself and my weapon at distance. More shooting is going to have more to do with my wind reading skills than anything else.

I have been shooting a 7mm Dakota recently (One of Len's lightweight Long Range Rifles). Field shooting with a Atlas bipod and a field bag just this week, I put 2 shots in a 1.75" at 1K and I was shooting right-handed (I'm a lefty). It was no surprise when later on Len put two shots at 950 yards that measured 1.5". It has consistently shot sub half MOA when conditions were good from two different shooters. This is what I expect from a custom rig.

I have shot rifles more recently in the last couple of years. This year I decided sort of at the last minute to get a F-Class rifle built. My first two matches was at the F-Class Nationals and World just south of Raton NM. Also my first time to compete with a rifle! This is not BR-You cannot rapid fire your shots down range like BR. I shot F-Open for individual and then was invited to shoot TR for the team match.
My second morning I shot a 150-6X. We had good conditions!
What does that mean?
The "X" ring at 1000 yards is 5" and the 10 ring is 10". Out of those 15 shots, 6 were 5" or under and the other 9 were 10" or under (it is a score match). When you add my sighters, of which I had 6, I had three 10's and 3X's, with my first cold bore shot being an "X". 21 shots 10" or under, with 9 of them 5" or under.
To put my first within 2.5" of the center is always pleasing at 1K.
Mac's Gunworks (South of Gillette) built that rig.

This is what I expect in terms of accuracy of my rigs.

 

[paphil]

To quote my friend, Bobby Hart on his guarantee for accuracy, " all his guns will shoot one hole groups at 1000 yards! ( one shot group)!

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...
Just because I can shoot a .25 MOA group at 100 does not mean I can 2.50" group at 1K-If it was only that easy...

For decades the belief that I could do just that made me 'not bother' to take up long guns. I thought they were perfect machines with perfect ammo from the store so hitting a fly at 500 yards was an every day thing.

Now that I am more educated - well, that's the thing of a Pandora's Box situation, once opened it can't be closed. The pursuit of accuracy and precision plus the 'making things that work well' as in my own customization and reloading is all consuming.

Only had the chance once at 1000. Working with animals can be a serious disruption to attending matches or being at an appointed place and time for long range work.

but

1/2 moa vertical dispersion at 1000 yards, as in 5" to me means the firearm and load is accurate. The rest, precision in point of impact, is up to me.

For hunting, that 1/2 moa vertical means a 'well placed' shot with almost any caliber should have the desired effect.

 

[dragman]

Yes I agree with this also, while if you have a gun that shoots sub .1's its probably gonna out perform you or the conditions out to 1000 yards it's not always just about the math.
I have seen guns that would shoot no better than 1/2" at 100 yards but still be under an inch at 300 yards. it's a delicate game of balance and understanding.

 

[FearNoWind]

One other thought, the most important shot is that first, cold bore shot. It is the one that matters in a hunting situation and if it isn't in your group , the group doesn't matter! Reserve a 1000 yard target for a couple of days and shoot only one shot each day cold bore! For hunting, that is the group that matters!

As an instructor, like yourself, I couldn't agree more. Although the philosophy of that statement may be lost in the emotional evaluation of it focus, I'd endorse it as a practice activity for anyone who is serious about long range hunting. Taking one shot and walking away on the assumption that the shot was a miss infers that the animal should fall with the first shot. A wounded animal may appear to be uninjured (especially at 1000 yards distance through a scope) and die a lingering miserable death because the hunter believed he missed.
Thanks for the statement, Phil. I intend to use it as a part of my training program.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

This thread rubbed me the wrong way a few months back so i figured out a way to shoot over the current 6' corn crops just so i could post this gem.

308 win, 1000yds, 3.63 CTC, harris bi pod and a rolled up towel.