Can 308 do everything you need a rifle to do under 600 yards?

sdakotaguy said:

I do not think I personally, would find the the 308 or any other cartridge up to the 600 yard challenge with hunting in mind. 400 yards is pushing my comfort zone enough. 600 yards is just not in the cards for me with any cartridge. I insist on a clean kill 100% of the time. 600 yards is the issue in my eyes, not the cartridge. YMMV

If the conversation was switched to shooting steel or paper at 600 yards. Then yes I can accept a bad wind call on paper or steel on occasion. The rules take a big step up for me when actually hunting. For me hunting is about closing distance as opposed to shooting long distance. That & not being afraid to pass a shot, I suppose.

I have not always been this conservative though my recovery rate has reflected my self imposed limits.

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While I understand your and others similar opinions and limitations, I think the op is more about the cartridge's abilities and not the individual shooters' limitations. Like every sport, there are those who train, practice and put in a lot of time and resources to reach another level that many do not desire.

Ok GGD, what is the right answer here? Is the 308 up to the task? If So I expect the bullet options have been narrowed considerably at 600 yards. What projectiles would be considered optimal for the task laid out?

There are lots of scenarios within the same cartridge. The cartridge could do it. I have 2 308s, one an AR with a 20" barrel that I've killed whitetails cleanly DRT with to 500 yards with 168 grain bullets. It is very accurate. I had the range, no wind, and a great shooting position. Would I go to 600 for whitetails? With the right conditions yes. For Elk at 600 the 20" barrel takes a lot of umph out of the equation. With 168 accubonds or 185 Berger Jugs it's just shy of 1500ft/lbs at 400. Some folks might get more out of it but I can't with the powders I've tried and still be accurate. So after that range with that rifle it would be a no go.

My other 308 bolt rifle has a 12 twist 26" barrel. I can get around 2800fps out of it with 168s. That's right at 200fps more than the AR with the 20". If I really stand on it with the right bullet and right powder I drop below 1500 ft/lbs at 575 yards. I am only 35 ft above sea level so those numbers should improve a bit as elevation increases. So technically it should be capable of killing an elk at that distance. I'm sure it's been done before. Would I take that shot if conditions were absolutely perfect? Probably. But I'd feel a bit better about it if I had a little more horsepower in my hands.

sdakotaguy said:

Ok GGD, what is the right answer here? Is the 308 up to the task? If So I expect the bullet options have been narrowed considerably at 600 yards. What projectiles would be considered optimal for the task laid out?

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168 TTSX minimum impact velocity 1500 fps will be travelling at 1769 @ 600, 168 ablr min impact velocity 1300 fps would be doing 1900 at 600. Those are the first two that come to mind.

If you throat out a 308 for a bullet like the 215 Berger it's potent, elk are really no issue same bullet I shoot in a 300 Win just 400 fps slower but at 600 yards an elk won't know the difference between the two.

bigngreen said:

If you throat out a 308 for a bullet like the 215 Berger it's potent, elk are really no issue same bullet I shoot in a 300 Win just 400 fps slower but at 600 yards an elk won't know the difference between the two.

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So what twist rate may be required for the 215 gr Berger?

sdakotaguy said:

So what twist rate may be required for the 215 gr Berger?

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I run 1-10 gives me good stability, I shot them a lot before the 200.20x came out but I may revisit it some day with that bullet.

One con about the 308 is it's not as easy to stay on target with the shot as 6.5 Creedmoor or 6 ARC. I'm gravitating to lighter recoiling cartridges for spotting impacts on game without having to reposition if even a little.

sdakotaguy said:

Ok GGD, what is the right answer here? Is the 308 up to the task? If So I expect the bullet options have been narrowed considerably at 600 yards. What projectiles would be considered optimal for the task laid out?

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I've already answered that question earlier in this thread........YES.

I have shot 308's out to 1,000 yards, and I have taken game well past 600 yards with 155's, 165's, 168's and 180's. I have used the 308 for decades in Nat'l Match prone at 600, and used it in Palma 800-1,000 yards.

As for "optimal", that depends on the game hunted. I've shot prairie dogs with 125's to 155's, and then taken deer and elk with 155's to 180's.

Greatgrandad said:

I've already answered that question earlier in this thread........YES.

I have shot 308's out to 1,000 yards, and I have taken game well past 600 yards with 155's, 165's, 168's and 180's. I have used the 308 for decades in Nat'l Match prone at 600, and used it in Palma 800-1,000 yards.

As for "optimal", that depends on the game hunted. I've shot prairie dogs with 125's to 155's, and then taken deer and elk with 155's to 180's.

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What are your thoughts on higher BC projectiles like the 178 ELDX? My pet load is 2550 FPS 178 ELDX. It's a rainbow but hits like a freight train and cuts the wind well.

General RE LEE said:

What are your thoughts on higher BC projectiles like the 178 ELDX? My pet load is 2550 FPS 178 ELDX. It's a rainbow but hits like a freight train and cuts the wind well.

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Put it where it counts, and it should do the job. I haven't run them on my 308's, but several people are having good success with the 175BTHP.

If I were spec'ing out a 308 Win to shoot a bullet similarly to a 215 berger (1.6 length), I would go to a 1:9 twist (and there is nothing wrong with going to 1:8). A 1:10 is going to be in the marginal stability range for the 308 win because of the velocity. Velocity (and to a lesser extent temperature and altitude ) plays a factor in stability and even loading long and using the additional powder capacity you would be relying on finding an accurate load at near maximum charge weight. You would want to assume you will be shooting in very cold weather and while you would likely be at higher altitude, I would assume a lower altitude - plan for the worst conditions possible, there is no downside in the selection of twist rate.

However, just dropping down to the 210 VLD (1.46 length) would make a 1:10 a twist an acceptable twist a assuming a longer throat, a longish magazine box, and normal length barrel.

Greatgrandad said:

Put it where it counts, and it should do the job. I haven't run them on my 308's, but several people are having good success with the 175BTHP.

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Wow, you might as well use a FMJ at longer range and call it a hunting bullet! If you think a 175 grain bullet at the muzzle doing 2550 is going to do anything but poke a hole, probably in and never come out, at any distance beyond 500 yards, where it is already down to an anemic 1700 fps, your talking more wounded game than will ever be possible to recover than using a 223 @ half that distance.

Then in reality, your talking having good enough accuracy to hit a 2 to 3" kill zone, that means you need .5" at 500 yards from that load, with absolute perfect doping and execution with no human error from the hunter??

Take that to 600 yards, and even if the hunter was super human and could execute perfect shot placement the load isn't capable of that kind of accuracy and at now around 1500 fps a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine is a better choice if it's used inside 50 yards?? Something I know no capable handgun hunter of trying to do!

My opinion the 308 is better suited to 168 or 150 grain bullets, with fairly capable success under 500 yards. Yes in a perfect situation, and conditions, 500 yards would be a possible situation on game deer size or smaller. To expect anything more to me is wishful thinking.

I also will saying after 7 decades hunting, I would never limit myself knowing the conditions and circumstances encountered in real life huning to set out intending on using a 308 with the best loads, for anything larger than deer beyond 400 yards. But I'm not confusing target practice, with real world big game hunting! This is just how I would handle this proposed scenario, but to each their own, I just have to allow a tiny bit for my practical abilities, since I am just hair less than perfect with execution in the field. I like to be practical.

Like @ med358-boise said if specing one out the faster twist like a 1-9 would be my choice but a 1-10 works as the slowest for a 215 they loose stability in a 1-11. Mine shoots small into transition beyond 1500 yards @ 5000 ft elevation even below zero.
I do prefer the 215 to 210 in hunting because it opens lower and more violently but the point is to use BC and heavy for cal in a moderate chambering.