What effects blood trails more, BH selection or shot implementation?

birddog 68 said:

I've bow hunted for probably 30 years and always used the plain Jane muzzy 3 blade with excellent results. With a good non mechanical BH shot placement is everything.
After a torn rotator cuff I had to switch to a crossbow and have shot a few deer. At crossbow speed I decided I needed to shoot mechanical and have been using rage. After taking a 20 yard chip shot at a buck I was amazed that he was still up at about 100 yards away. I was puzzled by the lack of blood on the bolt but there was a decent blood trail. After getting permission from the neighboring property owner I found him about 50 yards from where I last seen him.
This was not a super steep angle, less than 45 degrees. I will be shopping for a different BH for next year.

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that's not broadhead error that's shooter error, ain't no magical broadhead gonna fix that shot placement.
That's a raking shot almost straight down on the deer, your lucky you were able to recover him.

And I'd also add that they go hand in hand.
Placement and BH selection.

Tom264 said:

that's not broadhead error that's shooter error, ain't no magical broadhead gonna fix that shot placement.
That's a raking shot almost straight down on the deer, your lucky you were able to recover him.

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You are incorrect. If you would have read the original post I mentioned the angle and it wasn't straight down! If this was shooter error I would own up to it.
Numerous others on this thread said that they have witnessed this with Rage BH.
Now I am one of them.
I have been archery hunting for over 30 years and have never seen this even at steep angles but I have just switched to mechanical BH.
You are entitled to your opinion on what happened but I have no reason to lie about the angle and performance of said BH.
Just 2 posts below.

Rosebud said:

The arrow hit the last rib skated up the side of the spike buck then turned into the chest cavity just behind the shoulder. I'd never heard a deer make a sound like that before. It looked like a sword swipe across its left rib cage

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Doghunter23 said:

I have seen and heard of more failures from Rage than any other broadhead! Either deploying before impact this redirecting point of impact. Poor to terrible penetration, and what you experienced is deflection upon impact, fairly common

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Recently, roughly 3 years ago I came around to understanding the advantages of great single bevel broad heads. Only have taken 3 deer with the COC single bevels so far. For the tree stand hunting I do I have found no down side to utilizing the 2 blade COC single bevel broad head. Current average is deer have went down within 60 yards of Impact & expire quite quickly.

Blood trails have varied from very little to the best blood trail I will ever see when using the 2 blade fixed head. Shot placement matters here in terms of blood trail.

I have taken a quite a few more deer with expandable broad-heads & my average for distance traveled after impact is similar with exceptions due to marginal shots made.

Reality of my experiences is that chance of shot location shifting a bit one way or another plays heavily into blood trails & distance traveled.

I could in good conscience recommend a few mechanicals to some archers. With COC 2 blade fixed heads I feel I could recommend these heads to anyone that is responsible enough to tune their bow properly & keep shot distances respectable.

Lots of options out there & they are not all created equally.

I am not incorrect.
A wound that large and that long tells me less than 10 yds and most likely 5 if not straight down.
Green arrow is your arrow direction.

It's obvious that if you don't hit an animal where it is likely to bleed profusely its not going to bleed profusely haha. That being said, it been proven that 2 blade heads can but generally do not produce as much blood as a 3 or 4 blade that creates a "hole". Basically the question isn't as simple as it sounds. Any broadhead placed in a good spot will drop blood pressure and ultimately lead to death but if you want blood to exit the animal and end up on the ground (e.i. blood trail) a head that creates a hole over a slice (2 blade) your odds are higher with a 3 or 4 blade.

Tom264 said:

I am not incorrect.
A wound that large and that long tells me less than 10 yds and most likely 5 if not straight down.
Green arrow is your arrow direction.

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I didn't notice you there when I made the shot.
In my original post I said the range and angle. I have shot plenty of deer with archery equipment and that's why I stated that it APPEARS that it was a sharp angle BUT it was not. At least 2 others on here claim to have had the same results from Rage BH and have switched to another brand.
I posted the picture because I was confused by the wound and I received good information from @Rosebud and @Doghunter23 and am grateful for them sharing their experience.
I didn't post the picture to be trolled and called a liar on a public forum by a know it all.
You are joining my short list of people on ignore.

I must have hit a nerve.
That's ok.
There is no way no how a bolt or arrow would do that.
So were you with those other 2 guys mentioned that had the "same" thing happen?
Nope you weren't
You're taking their word that they also made a perfect shot and that happened.
Things happen the moment you release an arrow, bolt or bullet.
I'm telling ya. With that angle you were much closer to that deer then you think.
I'm not calling you a liar I'm saying maybe you had buck fever and got totally confused with the situation.
Because I know EVERYBODY IS A PERFECT SHOT and the bullet, bolt or arrow (BH) failed…..

Closer than you think, OR perhaps the arrow did a re-direct on Impact. Re-direct at impact is more common & can be more dramatic than most folks think. I am of the opinion that severe redirects are considerably more common with mechanical offerings.

Not saying this was the case with this shot, though poor arrow flight can play in with the redirect as well. The Op may wish to shoot through paper for the sake of education. May or may not be a real consideration.

This shot was at a known distance that I have shot a couple deer without issue.

sdakotaguy said:

Re-direct at impact is more common & can be more dramatic than most folks think. I am of the opinion that severe redirects are considerably more common with mechanical offerings.

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This is what I believe happened.

sdakotaguy said:

The Op may wish to shoot through paper for the sake of education. May or may not be a real consideration.

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This is a great suggestion. I haven't done this with the crossbow and may help explain things.
I appreciate your input

Kind of thinking out loud here.

If the arrow flight was erratic or not stabilized at impact, A tail high at impact at a given distance could give strong hints towards a cause at least in part for the redirect on impact. Not all that familiar w cross bows though it seems an experimentation with spine stiffness & or point weight could offer more reliable penetration in the future.

Standard bows & especially traditional bows can be rather picky about arrow spine & point weight balance. To one extent or another I would expect a cross bow to behave with a somewhat similar need for a proper spine for the point weight & poundage of the limbs.

Faster arrows tend to be more sensitive to over all tune. Cross bows tend to be considerably faster than a compound bow, so yes we may be on to something here.

Happy you recovered the deer. Expect this was rather disturbing.

Tom264 said:

I am not incorrect.
A wound that large and that long tells me less than 10 yds and most likely 5 if not straight down.
Green arrow is your arrow direction.

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Tom264 said:

I am not incorrect.
A wound that large and that long tells me less than 10 yds and most likely 5 if not straight down.
Green arrow is your arrow direction.

Click to expand...

That arrow absolutely could have deflected downward during the hit instead of penetrating in a straight line. Consequently giving the impression that the deer was shot at a much steeper angle. I have seen pretty much the same thing happen with bullets contacting the should blade at an angle. Then run down outside of the ribs and basically open a slice that the entrails fell out of. Strange things happen. I once had a doe wheel when I shot. The arrow hit the near side front leg just under the chest, defected up, ran several inches up the neck just under the skin and finally penetrated the deers throat. She ran about 30 yards spraying blood, stopped and blew several times, then turned to walk and fell over dead. I wouldn't have believed it myself had I not seen it. This was with a 4 blade Zwickey and they aren't know for deflecting. Rage heads have certainly built themselves a reputation for deflecting. I shoot traditional equipment but I have enough guys around that shoot the Rage so I've seen the results and the failures. Far too many failures. If I used a compound I certainly wouldn't shoot them. There are much better options.

southpa said:

It's obvious that if you don't hit an animal where it is likely to bleed profusely it's not going to bleed profusely haha. That being said, it been proven that 2 blade heads can but generally do not produce as much blood as a 3 or 4 blade that creates a "hole". Basically the question isn't as simple as it sounds. Any broadhead placed in a good spot will drop blood pressure and ultimately lead to death but if you want blood to exit the animal and end up on the ground (e.i. blood trail) a head that creates a hole over a slice (2 blade) your odds are higher with a 3 or 4 blade.

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Absolutely correct. I shot plain 2 blade heads made by many different manufacturers for a long time. But the slice they leave on exit is linear much like a slice from a scalpel or a knife stab. That type of wound can plug easily with tissue, fat, and even hide which leads to a weak blood trail at times. I then experimented with Snuffers, Wensel Woodsman's, Bodkins, and Zwickey 4 blades with the small bleeders. With the 3 blade heads penetration suffered significantly. Particularly on large hogs. With the 4 blade Zwickey penetration seemed to be equivalent to the 2 blade heads yet because of a larger hole at exit bloods trails more often than not were better.
My brother and I archery hunted together for around thirty years in very game rich areas with long seasons and would take as many as 25-30 deer and hogs between us per year. After a while trends or patterns start to develop concerning different types of heads.

sdakotaguy said:

Kind of thinking out loud here.

If the arrow flight was erratic or not stabilized at impact, A tail high at impact at a given distance could give strong hints towards a cause at least in part for the redirect on impact. Not all that familiar w cross bows though it seems an experimentation with spine stiffness & or point weight could offer more reliable penetration in the future.

Standard bows & especially traditional bows can be rather picky about arrow spine & point weight balance. To one extent or another I would expect a cross bow to behave with a somewhat similar need for a proper spine for the point weight & poundage of the limbs.

Faster arrows tend to be more sensitive to over all tune. Cross bows tend to be considerably faster than a compound bow, so yes we may be on to something here.

Happy you recovered the deer. Expect this was rather disturbing.

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Paper tuning is something that I did with every compound bow and arrow combination that I have used. I doubt very many people do this with their crossbow. I definitely want the perfect flight so I may have to experiment with different weights of bolts and broad head.
I am using the recommended weight bolt and BH.