do tuners "cheat" barrel harmonics or is there another way to duplicate previous barrel

As a traveling Fclass shooter I don't leave home without one on the end of my barrel. My goal is to never have to touch it.

I've never had one on a hunting rifle and probably never will.

Again tuners work, but they won't "fix" a terrible load.

bultinkle said:

I'd like to see a pencil barrel contoured to leave 3-4" of 1.25" bell at the muzzle

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I have only ever seen this done on shotguns, where the choke slot is larger than barrel lol. Looks goofy.

Mikecr said:

Well just don't forget that 'tune' includes 2 separate attributes.
1. powder tune
2. barrel tune
The two do not often fall on top of each other. That is, best grouping is often not lowest SD from the powder.
You may not see this result at single fixed ranges, due to barrel compensation. So if you load develop at 600yds, for 600yd shooting, then a tuner won't help anything there. That's true.

But long range hunting includes a whole gamut of ranges.
An optimum and forgiving powder node here can help, as WE only get 1 shot.
A barrel 'might' compensate well across ranges. It 'might' not.
A good tuner should flatten/widen a barrel node.
So with a best producing powder node, and a good tuner setting, your hunting shot percentages should improve.

For those who gave it a good hunting try and it didn't work out,, then good try at least.
Perhaps there is some bizarre reason that it just didn't work for you.

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No it doesnt work. A good tune is going to have decent es. If you take a barrel out of tune chasing that last 10 ft of es and try to fix the groups with a tuner you will become one of the guys that stuggles with a rifle staying in tune. If you have proven this method somewhere tell us. I have seen a lot of competitors try that and fail. I dont want guys doing that.

Id like to ad a little more to this. Tuners are not new. I have been around them almost 20 years. People always argue about if they work. We need to define "work". Do they reduce your group size over a properly tuned barrel? Not in my experience, and thats not just me but a lot of really good BR customers. Now, if you short cut the tuning process or just are not that good at tuning I would not be surprised if the tuner did shrink your best groups. But there was a load you didnt try that was just as good or better. Now tuners do 100% have an effect on group size and shape. If you have a truly accurate rifle that repeats, and you make the appropriate tuner adjustments you will bring the rifle in and out of tune just like you can with powder or seating. Very repeatable and obvious results. The problem is too many make adjustments too big and they get lost. These are very sensitive. Depending on weight, you may only be moving it .001" or .002" to see a difference.
Thats the problem. If you short cut the tune and dial it in with the tuner, you will have a tune that doesnt hold up. When you have a really well tuned barrel its not going out of tune all the time. Its solid. You dont need to be messing with the tuner all the time. The guys that have the best handle on tuners in my opinion are the short range br guys. They tune the barrel, then adjust the tuner and lock it down. Never touch it after that. Its just a weight that is happy with the barrels real tune. That weight does stabilize poi. The other reason to have one is a traveling competitor that has to pre load ammo. Even then you shouldnt need it if you tuned right. But its a save your *** kind of thing. Bottom line, you dont use them to tune. If you do you will struggle. Rimfire and factory ammo are different. You have no choice.

fseaman said:

I truly thank @Alex Wheeler and @DocUSMCRetired for sharing their insight and experience.

I had a thought that I don't remember being discussed, that is when the shooter does not or can not control the load.

This applies to rimfire and anyone who can not or chooses not to handload.

My case point is my Weatherby Vanguard in 223. It is from the slow twist era around 2010. Before I got my reloading equipment, I went through every "light bullet" factory ammo eventually settling on Superformance 53g V-Max. Still struggled for precision. Then I got a barrel tuner. It worked as described on the tin. Once handloading, I tried other loads but duplicating that factory load with no change to the tuner worked.

I remember trying a limb saver on a 270 Weatherby Magnum with a pencil barrel and 12 twist. It sort of worked but I eventually abandoned it in favor of handload Barnes TTSX 95 going very fast and using "hunting simulation" of one cold + dirty followed by one follow up.

We know that barrel devices can be used to tune. It might not be the appropriate tool for the handloader but what about the non-handloader, what do you think?

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I was a handloader for decades prior to getting that 2MOA rifle. An adjustable muzzle brake turner it into a 2" at 300 yards rifle.

DocUSMCRetired said:

Just add a suppressor if you can, same effect.

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Thank you. I have a Pac-Nor fast twist barrel to swap on. The existing barrel has prob thousands of rounds through it.