308 modification

nunya2222 said:

Hey

I have a 308 savage long range hunter. The rifle worked very well for about 4 years. All the sudden this year it's started to really get messed up. Not hitting on paper at 20. I think it's related to the rifles stock. I have kind of out grown the gun and want to go to a heavier caliber for hunting but would still like to hold on to my 308.

I'll primarily use it for spring black bear hunting and maybe antelope.

Anyways this is a long way for me to say I'm going to turn this rifle into a frankenstein. I'm thinking of about dropping the barrel and action into an MDT oryx chassis.

The barrel is currently 20 inches long. I have a banish 30 can I want to put on it. What do you guys think I can chop the barrel to and expect good performance at 500 and below. Good enough to take down a bear or antelope but doesn't need to be competition accurate. I'm looking for ethical accuracy not competition accuracy.

Any other modifications you might suggest would be appreciated.

I understand this isn't a dream build. With the exception of the chassis and barrel chop I'm not putting much money into it. In reality I'm just trying to do something different with my 308. I'll be spending more money on building a 300 win mag later this year.

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At 500 yards you will need competition (sub moa) accuracy to ensure an ethical shot, especially on a bear. They are not going to roll over and die unless you hit them in a vital area, especially at that range with a 308 when velocity and energy have dropped off.

Mike D Texas said:

Something isn't adding up here. Guns just do go from shooting to not even being on paper at 20 yards, especially in a super mild, stable cartridge like .308.

Did you run over it with your truc

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No doubt. I haven't run it over with my truck yet but I want to. I have had a gun smith look at it, a long rifle building enthusiast, a marine who worked in the armory and multiple long range shooters use it. None of them can seem to figure it out. we have literally taken it apart and put it back together mulitple times and can't figure out the issue. The only obvious wild card at this point is the stock. Honestly I don't even care that much about the rifle that much anymore. I'm more interested in learning what went wrong. In the process I have learned alot more about rifles than I expected and the knowledge acquired is way more valuable than the rifle itself.

nunya2222 said:

No doubt. I haven't run it over with my truck yet but I want to. I have had a gun smith look at it, a long rifle building enthusiast, a marine who worked in the armory and multiple long range shooters use it. None of them can seem to figure it out. we have literally taken it apart and put it back together mulitple times and can't figure out the issue. The only obvious wild card at this point is the stock. Honestly I don't even care that much about the rifle that much anymore. I'm more interested in learning what went wrong. In the process I have learned alot more about rifles than I expected and the knowledge acquired is way more valuable than the rifle itself.

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You need a new gunsmith.

Rotten said:

How long has it been cleaned down to bare metal?
I'm not talking about looking down the bore I mean with an actual bore scope?
If you don't want to spend 50-60 dollars on a bore scope I would buy some sweets or other copper remover.
Get out any carbon first and use some job bore paste with the copper remover until their is not fouling.
If that doesn't work then I would consider new barrel.
But for the price Id just buy a new rifle. New barrel 800.00
New Ruger American 500.00
If it was a action or rifle worth the expense then yes re barrel.
95% of the time on cheaper guns it isn't worth rebarrling

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What he says, one of my friends just had the same problem with a savage. Turns out the barrel was the problem.

Teri Anne said:

At 500 yards you will need competition (sub moa) accuracy to ensure an ethical shot, especially on a bear. They are not going to roll over and die unless you hit them in a vital area, especially at that range with a 308 when velocity and energy have dropped off.

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I don't agree with that.

Competition accuracy is less than .5 MOA to be in the running to win, unless you are talking F-Class or Benchrest and then you need to be in the .25 or less.

1.25MOA at 500 yards equals 6.25 inches. A bear's vitals are in the 16" range and they are pretty easy to kill in that they are pretty thin skinned and their vitals are pretty big.

My short 308 Encore (17" barrel) will launch a 150 grain SST at 2650 fps. That bullet is still traveling 1700 fps at 500 yards which is more than fast enough for good bullet performance from that bullet. I would not hesitate to shoot a bear at 500 yards with it.

nunya2222 said:

Hey

I have a 308 savage long range hunter. The rifle worked very well for about 4 years. All the sudden this year it's started to really get messed up. Not hitting on paper at 20. I think it's related to the rifles stock. I have kind of out grown the gun and want to go to a heavier caliber for hunting but would still like to hold on to my 308.

I'll primarily use it for spring black bear hunting and maybe antelope.

Anyways this is a long way for me to say I'm going to turn this rifle into a frankenstein. I'm thinking of about dropping the barrel and action into an MDT oryx chassis.

The barrel is currently 20 inches long. I have a banish 30 can I want to put on it. What do you guys think I can chop the barrel to and expect good performance at 500 and below. Good enough to take down a bear or antelope but doesn't need to be competition accurate. I'm looking for ethical accuracy not competition accuracy.

Any other modifications you might suggest would be appreciated.

I understand this isn't a dream build. With the exception of the chassis and barrel chop I'm not putting much money into it. In reality I'm just trying to do something different with my 308. I'll be spending more money on building a 300 win mag later this year.

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Check your Banish suppressor specs for minimum barrel length with that cartridge before cutting. Should be fine but I am not familiar with their specifications.

MDT Oryx stock is a good upgrade for your rifle but I doubt it is going to solve your main problem.

My first question would be, what changed? Did you take it apart or drop it?

If the gun went from shooting ok to awful all at once, you have other issues. I would suspect scope/rings/mounts first. Muzzle crown and receiver screws next.

If it gradually went bad, maybe barrel fouling. Clean to bare metal and reshoot.

I usually advise, find a good shooter and let them take a couple of shots. Rule out operator error first. I don't know you or your experience level, so no offense.

My next step is usually swap to a known decent scope. I have an old simple 10x fixed power I keep in mounts as a test mule just for this purpose. Has saved me lots of aggrevation and components.
If it gradually went awful, maybe barrel fouling.

It's amazing to me how much accuracy we expect from hunting rifles these days.
I remember reading hunting mags back into the 80's about if you had a factory rifle that could do 11/4 to 11/2 was normal. If you had one that would do moa at 100 yards you had a unicorn.
I'm the same way if I can't get moa out of my rifle it's not going hunting.

When you figure it out, don't forget to come back here with an update. Spread the knowledge so someone else searching with the same problem doesn't have to urinate on the electric fence for theirself.

And you are correct, you will learn way more about rifle building/gunsmithing from a problem rifle than a perfect rifle.

Baffle strike possibly if not the optic

I have read all of the replies and your OP several times. Going from satisfactory performance to not hitting paper at 20 yards just does not add up. I did not read anywhere about how many rounds you have put through this rifle over the past four years, nor did I read anywhere about what kind of ammunition you have put through the rifle as well??? As some have written in replies your barrel "could" be fouled up, however I believe that there is a mechanical issue that is causing your rifle to not hit paper at 20 yards, and.... not the stock as you have suggested. When I read a thread such as this one, I always start with going back to the basics, starting with the mounting of the sighting system on the rifle as well as the scope itself. A few years back I had a friend who was in a panic. He had a week before he was to go on a hunting trip to Wyoming (?) on a combination mule deer/antelope hunt. We live in Rhode Island and this was to be a hunt of a lifetime for him. He wanted to try shooting his rifle out to 300 yards due to the distances he felt he was going to be shooting at. When we got to the range he started shooting at targets at 100 yards and his groups opened up to 2-3+ inches. The rifle was a Winchester model 70 in .270 WSM and always was a tack driver. Talk about sweating, this was his primary rifle and a week before his hunt the rifle crapped out!! I started to closely watch him shoot, looking for something that he might be doing wrong. During his shooting I noticed that something moved on the scope. Upon the next shot I saw that the rear scope ring opened up at the junction where the top ring fastened to the bottom section of the scope's base. Upon close inspection the rear scope ring had cracked and was totally unnoticeable upon a regular visual inspection. If you would like to get out of the expense of a new barrel, you might want to consider a rebore to .338 Federal? If you decided to go the .338 Federal route I wouldn't be cutting the barrel as I would like to get as much horsepower out of that cartridge as possible to reach out 500 yards. A Barnes 185 MRX BT leaving the muzzle at roughly 2800fps out to 500 yards with a 200 yard zero would be 2 inches high at 100 yards, -8 inches at 300 yard with 2100fps muzzle velocity and 2200 foot pounds of muzzle energy, and out to 500 yards the round would drop 50 inches, have a muzzle velocity of 1718fps and have1440 foot pounds of energy. The expense for that would be around $250 and shipping. It ought to be a decent round for black bear hunting, not certain about an antelope cartridge out to 500 yards though? I have done several rebores from JES Reboring and have had nothing but good performance out of any of the barrels they have done for me. I have three 35 Whelens that were rebored on Ruger 77s from 30-06 and a BLR from .308 Winchester to .358 Winchester. Good luck with your rifle, but I would still be checking for a mechanical break down with the mounting/sighting system before I went any further.

HandgunHTR said:

I don't agree with that.

Competition accuracy is less than .5 MOA to be in the running to win, unless you are talking F-Class or Benchrest and then you need to be in the .25 or less.

1.25MOA at 500 yards equals 6.25 inches. A bear's vitals are in the 16" range and they are pretty easy to kill in that they are pretty thin skinned and their vitals are pretty big.

My short 308 Encore (17" barrel) will launch a 150 gra21stin SST at 2650 fps. That bullet is still traveling 1700 fps at 500 yards which is more than fast enough for good bullet performance from that bullet. I would not hesitate to shoot a bear at 500 yards with it.

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I agree with your point about accuracy required at 500 yards, but your math is a little off.

A bear's 16" vitals is the diameter of its lung & heart area (a circle drawn around its vitals, center is 8") and MOA is a radius (half of a diameter). MOA is a radial or angle measured in one direction out from the aim point. It's not the same as the group size diameter. A 6.25 MOA would be an angle/miss approximately 6.25" in any direction from the aim point = a 12.5" circle.

To your point, if your aim was off the exact center of the vitals by more than 1.75" you would miss the vitals at 500 yds. Also is your scope's crosshairs 1.75" or more wide at 500 yards which also adds error, and your hunting heartbeat/breathing moving the crosshair, hunting trigger control moving crosshair, hunting shooting posture, shooting rest, wind estimate, etc?

ARlife4me said:

Baffle strike possibly if not the optic

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This is what I am leaning towards.

Take the suppressor off and give it a go!