Gun builder vs gun builder

Highly dependent on circumstances. Some dudes are running manual lathes in their garage/detached shop. Some guys own/rent commercial warehouse space with multi-million dollar CNC machines, and employ multiple people. Arguments can be made for and against each scenario (and all in betweens).

Also, If you can tighten a nut on a bolt, you probably only need to pay to have someone chamber/thread your barrel.
 
Most known gunsmiths start small and build their reputation over time. Once they have an established name for quality work, the orders pour in. This is where things often change. One dedicated machinist/gunsmith can only turn out some many complete rifles in any given period of time. Therefore, they must hire employees to pick up the slack. The bigger a gunsmith gets, the more work has to be done by others under the smith's banner. Sooner or later, the quality that made the business grow might change.

Just my observation from dealing with gunsmiths all over the country. Sometimes a good, low-volume gunsmith is better than a BIG name gunsmith who turns out hundreds of rifles a year.

Overall, custom gunsmiths have made it possible for the average shooter, like me, to shoot some amazingly small groups over distances that we never considered before. Shooting LR is an addictive hobby.
 
Where is he buying those parts? As a rifle builder of 20 years, it is common to only see 10% margins on parts. That is far from "substantial" in my book. Accessory parts can often have 20-25% margins, but those are accessories and not the main components.

The action and stock/chassis choice can greatly affect the cost of a total rifle.

Defiance Anti action $1600
Proof Carbon barrel $800
Manners LRH mini chassis $1170 (may include bottom metal, depends on the vendor)
Trigger Tech Special $240
Hawkins HTR DBM with mag $325

That's $4135 for parts alone. With a mini chassis stock you trade out the cost of bedding. You still have the cost of chambering and muzzle work, then cerakote and assembly. There are hours of work associated with that in labor.

Can you build a budget rifle cheaper? Absolutely, but the question wasn't really about how cheap a rifle could be built. The question was about why one rifle may cost more than another.

My shop is currently working on producing a rifle we are calling the "blue collar rifle". We have our own feature rich custom actions, using a Proof carbon fiber barrel, lightweight carbon fiber shell stocks, DBM or Obendorf bottom metal. We want to make the rifle as affordable as possible while maintaining high quality components. We're still looking at a $3250 retail price point. That's $1300 cheaper than our normal rifle build so I consider that a "substantial" discount. It will still be way higher in quality than a CA or Fierce rifle.
This is extremely interesing on pricing. How much better, or worse would a 3k gun shoot than if you built one with the mentioned parts? Like what are the expectations of each.
 
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I, too, agree with @lancetkenyon. However, if you want to keep your costs down, don't ask him for a scope recommendation. 🤣 Sorry, Brother, I could not resist. :cool:
I got to give Lance, that a boy, for his recommendation that was made for someone else. It was like new Steiner Predator 4, 6x24x50 in the classifieds. The person he recommended it too didn't inquire, so I did. I believe he actually Saved me some money. I would have went another route. And probably spent twice as much. I can't believe how light this scope feels. And glass is really impressive. It is going to be my new hunting scope on my Rem 700 SS, in 257 Weatherby.
 
Not to ruffle feathers. Just always wondered this.
Take two builders. Heck, take 10 builders

Each use say Defiance Anti X
McMillan Hunter Stock or Manners etc.
Bartlein/Proof carbon. Whatever.
Hawkins Bottom metal
Trigger tech Diamond 2 Stage
Bedded
Wyatt's box
Blended tang that's almost seamless
All trued from the action/receiver to bolt face all the way down to action screws to hold it together.
Cerakoted here and there, etc.

Why does one go out the door at $3800-4k, the next is 6-8k and then there's the Gunwerks at 10k?
I've had so many built with the specs above around that $3700-4k range that are lights out, and machine and build are flawless.

Just asking because the thought of going with someone's $8k build has always intrigued me and sometimes I feel like I'm missing out on something, but not sure if what.
Its all about perceived value. I couldnt care less if someone came and offered me a gold bar yet a rifle sure
 
Lots of factors here.

Some is reputation, some is supply and demand (which is also affected by reputation)

Some builders are retired or have other income and don't need the money to fund their life, others are 35 and have kids and want to make more than 10 grand a year.

Gunwerks is a large company and has to pay all those employees. They also aren't usually charging 10 grand for just a rifle, it's often a package and includes set up and development.

Not all work is equal, some smiths measure everything and do things you never get told about, some underprice their knowledge, some cut corners.

Good examples of some differences are Alex wheeler and TacOps, usually cost a bit more than the rest but they have a huge body of work showing fantastic results in their fields and they go above and beyond the normal smith in detail and what they actually do, measuring everything, recutting cocking cams, reworking bolts etc. Hell Mike times every single bolt head.
 
What builders, besides gunwerks are charging $8k for a baseline build?

Every one I've dealt with and seen, is normally cost of parts, plus $1000-$1500

Barbour Creek comes close (but GW typical base is $7k). Here's a couple of their posted ads on the site.

$7025

$6900


Also, I've attached screen shots of Gunwerks site - the prices aren't as inflated as many claim. Base build on a Clymr or Magnus are both right at $7k. They do have some other rifles that are lower priced as well. The 10K mark is typically when you include a $2500+ optic, rings, and load development. Of course there are a couple exceptions like the "maker" series of nexus rifles and the HamR (cheytac which is going to be expensive regardless).

As for who you go with and price you pay - I'll gladly pay more for a solid reputation and support.

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I have two friends with Barbour Creek built rifles. The rifles were shot out at 1100 yards and both were easily within BC's .5 MOA standard . One with factory ammo and the other requested reloaded ammo w/ Berger bullets. Their stock is really nice! I can't afford their builds but I do have two rifles with their Artemis stock.
 
It's super easy to go north of 10 k in a gun build when you factor in everything you need or want in your custom build.
Here's a ruff list of parts and everything in my last build.
Kelblys nanook action 1650
Proof carbon barrel 780
Manners lrh stock 1050
Trigger tech diamond 315
Hawkins m5 bdl bottom metal 225
Sico asr break 80
Sico suppressor 850 with stamp
Suppressor wrap 129
Tangent theta 315 used 3850 with badger rings sold rings for $100
Arc rings 199
Peterson brass 90 x4
Dies
Bullets 3 types hornady eldx, and two berger
I'm easily into 10 k and that doesn't count the shipping or tax.
Then add the gunsmith idk the total cost for his labor but the gun is bedded and the scope was installed so between 1k and 1500 I'd have to check the build ticket.
Is it worth it ? Absolutely if it's exactly as you want it and shoots fantastic.
 
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Last year I built a full blown custom.
Bought everything myself and put it together myself.
I have exactly $5,546.88 in my rifle.
Add my scope - $2,354.00 and we're up to $7,900.88
Add my suppressor $2,370.00 and now we're up to $9,254.88
That's ME putting it together.
You spent how much on a suppressor? Holy heck, that thing better give me a neck massage while prepping for a shot :)
 
It might've been stated here, but having watched the process from start to finish helps one appreciate the time spent. The details on quality, the fit and finish.
If the end result is as it should be, from quality components and work, some builders don't charge enough, truth be told. Just an opinion.
This couldn't be more true. Actually watching the work that goes into a perfectly concentric chamber and muzzle brake job definitely opens your eyes! Then you have inletting if the stock isn't correct. Bedding and possibly re-bedding. Milling out the excess bedding. Cerakote and possible recerakote. Neither of those applications are perfect and can be messed up fairly easy which requires hours to fix.

I always paid the bill without complaints on every rifle. But having a gunsmith close to home to actually witness what goes into it, has definitely made paying just that much easier haha. Theres a lot of work, hard earned knowledge and expensive tooling involved for sure.
 
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