Pleasant surprises with my old .270 winnie

spinlite said:
I always thought that the n565 was closest to RL26.
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Very well could be, I'm not sure really. There's a couple of burn rate charts that don't exactly agree but what I noticed from the limited heavy bullet data I've seen is that 560 is usually closer to rl26 speeds than 565.

But I can't find data specifically for the berger 170 using 565, so I went after the low hanging fruit first for hunting season (time is getting short). When I get more time I'll work up a 565 load.
 
Stefan Wild said:
That's not true, at all. Not sure where you read 560 is not stable, but the internet is full of wrong information. Most load development methodologies are just plain wrong, unscientific and not statistically sane, yet they persist.
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On their website, the only specifically say "very temp stable (and hygroscopically stable) for 565 and 568.

I shall find out with my own testing. Gonna need more components.
 
Muddyboots said:
Mine is 1:8tw which is game changer, building next one with 1:7tw. The 1:8 allows me to shoot longer heavier mono's. The 1:7 provides hair better SG at 800'.
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That's the one thing I haven't don't yet- take it out to distance to see how it shoots. Fingers crossed🤞.

What I noticed when doing load development, my first load with 50 grains was super, super light judging by the firing pin strike. Battery was dead in my chronograph and I didn't have a spare so didn't get the speed. But it did keyhole just a bit.

Once it sped up, it shot great. So it *looks* like I'm well above the threshold. I'll find out in a few days.
 
Not apples to apples but my 1:8 shot the 170EOL at 3100 in 27" barrel with RL26 for reference. So it has the potential. I have not taken the 170 past 300 since I settled on 156HH (G7-0.292) at 3250. It has been incredibly accurate for me. I also have an older than dirt 1968 Savage 110C with newer Shaw 24" 1:10 that shoots the 117HH @ 3470 with H4350 extremely well.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
On their website, the only specifically say "very temp stable (and hygroscopically stable) for 565 and 568.

I shall find out with my own testing. Gonna need more components.
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I have 540 and 555 and on the bottle it states clearly that those are temp stable and my experience (North Texas temps up to 110) agrees.
According to a chart I refer to often, the 560 is .97, which is not even close to horrible, and almost half the stability of CFE 223. I have used 223 and that is one of the worst.
Design your load for the circumstances you will be using it. If you have a number like .97, that represents fps/°F and the calculation for adjusting is pretty straightforward.
If you feel you are working with unstable powder than just don't load up a bunch ahead of time. Tailor your loads for conditions. Bear in mind your "target" muzzle speed and adjust load to maintain that speed.
 
Stefan Wild said:
That's not true, at all. Not sure where you read 560 is not stable, but the internet is full of wrong information. Most load development methodologies are just plain wrong, unscientific and not statistically sane, yet they persist.
The N500 series is their line of high energy powders and the 560 is a slow burning powder.
If it states a charge should fill to compressed and you aren't compressing you should, perhaps, look at your COAL vs Sammi spec.

N560 is twice as stable as CFE223. .97 vs 1.70
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I'm not sure about your requirements for precision. But shooting year around in Mississippi means 20-90+ degrees.

If a 70* temp swing multiplied times .97 fps is good enough for you, rock on.

This is most decisively unstable. CFE223 is just another tier worse, as per your info.

I use the VV 500 series of powders in more rifles than other brands. They are fantastic powders. But I choose the ones that demonstrate temperature stability, and reduced that variable effect. There are enough other concerns without that particular one.
H1000,4831 and 4350 are the standards in stability, but a tad slower in velo.
N560 gives great velocity, but about the only thing worse on throats is acetylene and oxygen, in combination.
And for the internet information I read and value, it depends on who is doing the sharing, as to how much stock I put in it.
 
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Phil Rizzo said:
I'm not sure about your requirements for precision. But shooting year around in Mississippi means 20-90+ degrees.

If a 70* temp swing multiplied times .97 fps is good enough for you, rock on.

This is most decisively unstable. CFE223 is just another tier worse, as per your info.

I use the VV 500 series of powders in more rifles than other brands. They are fantastic powders. But I choose the ones that demonstrate temperature stability, and reduced that variable effect. There are enough other concerns without that particular one.
H1000,4831 and 4350 are the standards in stability, but a tad slower in velo.
N560 gives great velocity, but about the only thing worse on throats is acetylene and oxygen, in combination.
And for the internet information I read and value, it depends on who is doing the sharing, as to how much stock I put in it.
Click to expand...
I don't shoot at 90° even. However my load development, in the past, was conducted in the 70's. That makes a potential 40+ degree swing in the winter if I just load Willy nilly. My accuracy requirements are such that I will load specific rounds for specific expected temperatures days or a week at most before hunting to make sure what I load is what I developed for the temps that are forecasted no more than a week ahead of time. I expect less than 1 moa under any circumstances and if I am shooting paper than I expect 1/2-3/4. I do not compete with anyone but myself.
As I have clearly stated in an earlier post I use N555 and N540. I have had too many problems with Hodgdons and Alliance in the past and you can't use H4350 for everything nor is it always available. I have used IMR powders going back to the 1970's and even though they are not the most stable, I am familiar with how to use them properly, safely, and have no issues making adjustments for temp variations at need.
If you know what you are doing you can make CFE223 work for you.
 
Phil Rizzo said:
I'm not sure about your requirements for precision. But shooting year around in Mississippi means 20-90+ degrees.

If a 70* temp swing multiplied times .97 fps is good enough for you, rock on.

This is most decisively unstable. CFE223 is just another tier worse, as per your info.

I use the VV 500 series of powders in more rifles than other brands. They are fantastic powders. But I choose the ones that demonstrate temperature stability, and reduced that variable effect. There are enough other concerns without that particular one.
H1000,4831 and 4350 are the standards in stability, but a tad slower in velo.
N560 gives great velocity, but about the only thing worse on throats is acetylene and oxygen, in combination.
And for the internet information I read and value, it depends on who is doing the sharing, as to how much stock I put in it.
Click to expand...
I don't shoot at 90° even. However my load development, in the past, was conducted in the 70's. That makes a potential 40+ degree swing in the winter if I just load Willy nilly. My accuracy requirements are such that I will load specific rounds for specific expected temperatures days or a week at most before hunting to make sure what I load is what I developed for the temps that are forecasted no more than a week ahead of time. I expect less than 1 moa under any circumstances and if I am shooting paper than I expect 1/2-3/4. I do not compete with anyone but myself.
As I have clearly stated in an earlier post I use N555 and N540. I have had too many problems with Hodgdons and Alliance in the past and you can't use H4350 for everything nor is it always available. I have used IMR powders going back to the 1970's and even though they are not the most stable, I am familiar with how to use them properly, safely, and have no issues making adjustments for temp variations at need.
If you know what you are doing you can make CFE223 work for you.
 
We have two vintage Remington 270's here obes an ADL and the other, a BDL.
Finally shot out the BDL's barrel and replaced it.

I'm curious to know if you are aware that P. O. Ackley played around with the .270.
Maybe, A.I. (Ackley Improving) yours might give you that extra zing you're looking for.
 
Stefan Wild said:
I don't shoot at 90° even. However my load development, in the past, was conducted in the 70's. That makes a potential 40+ degree swing in the winter if I just load Willy nilly. My accuracy requirements are such that I will load specific rounds for specific expected temperatures days or a week at most before hunting to make sure what I load is what I developed for the temps that are forecasted no more than a week ahead of time. I expect less than 1 moa under any circumstances and if I am shooting paper than I expect 1/2-3/4. I do not compete with anyone but myself.
As I have clearly stated in an earlier post I use N555 and N540. I have had too many problems with Hodgdons and Alliance in the past and you can't use H4350 for everything nor is it always available. I have used IMR powders going back to the 1970's and even though they are not the most stable, I am familiar with how to use them properly, safely, and have no issues making adjustments for temp variations at need.
If you know what you are doing you can make CFE223 work for you.
Click to expand...
I hope your weather man is better than mine.
And I'm mighty thankful for temperature stable powder.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Unfortunately, I read that about n560 after buying it. I got some 565 and 570 but didn't find any 568.

The nice thing is loading right now, it will only get colder for hunting season. I may grab some 568 for summertime shooting.

I was surprised to find that after a 6 shot string that my barrel was still coolish. Everything I read was that it was a barrel burner but it's not seeming like that at all.

I think before I get too far into this project I'm going to test the temp stability. I really like the speed I'm getting, would be a shame if I couldn't use it in the summer without using a lighter load.
Click to expand...
I have used N560 for 20 years never had and temp instability. It is I get great groups and have no issues with the powder at all.
 

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