Flintlock Loads

I'm pretty sure the TC Hawkin has a 1 in 48 twist rifling. Beyond that I can't help much,mine is a 54.

For hunting I recommend a very tightly patched ball, get patches .015, .018, .020 and maybe .022 thick, .490 and .495 diameter balls. There will be a combination there that works well. The first thing you need to check when you start shooting is the fired patches. They should look like you could use them again with no issue. If there are cuts or burns through them you will need to address that first to get it shooting well, usually that is addressed by going thicker until they hold up well. For hunting I use Mink oil as patch lube and I FILL the patch with it, I also use a short starter 100% of the time for hunting loads. If the patches look OK I would start at 70 grains of 2F or 60 grains of 3F and go up in 5 grain increments until it groups well. That might be the first load, that might be 100 grains of powder, as long as it shoots well and the recoil is tolerable for you I wouldn't think twice about shooting up to 120 grains. Round balls are terribly inefficient and drift in the wind really bad, velocity is your only counter to that. At 100 yards there won't be a ton of difference between a load that started out at 1500 and a load that started at 1800 fps, there will be a ton of difference in how effective they are at 35-50 yards though. Once a roundball slows down enough to not flatten on impact they become pretty inefficient killers, like FMJ pistol shots so don't be afraid to send them as high speed as you can as long as they shoot tight and to point of aim. I prime with 4F and load 2F personally for hunting. Dump your priming charge a couple times a day and replace it with fresh powder, chances of a clatch and lost opportunity go way way down with fresh powder in the pan.

Greyfox said:

Ii recommend a lead round ball in a flintlock for deer. They will stabilize well with a 1;48-1;60" twist barrels and have more then sufficient expansion, energy, and accuracy to kill a deer at the range you are hunting. I use both cast and swaged(Hornady .490 lead round balls), OxYoke .015" patches lubed with Track of the Wolf Mink Oil, 3F GOEX or Schutzen Black powder, and 4F Black powder for priming. I prefer English Black Flints. Both the Mink Oil and Flints can be acquired at the "Track of the Wolf" web site. I would start with a 60gr(by volume) charge and work up to 70 gr. This recipe has worked very well for me in several of my flintlocks, including my first deer taken with a flintlock, a Thompson Center 50 cal Hawken back in the 70's.
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Fantastic information. Thank you so very much.

Boy HSmithTX sounds like you really got into it from your post about 1 year ago when you decided you wanted one.
Ron, I think we both could learn a bit from both these guys!
GrayFox, from what I have read the lock is real important as far as timing, spring tentions etc. That must be a good part of the expense with the uper end flinters...
I would like at least 54 cal up to 68 for the possibility of hunting Elk out here in Idaho.
This is a photo of my oldest Son Logan with a big Cow he shot a couple years ago with a cabelas Blue Ridge (I think) built by Pedersoli and a nice doe.
Most all our Elk hunting and some deer and black bear is done with trad. Bows that I built or trad. Black powder ( cap locks) hence my want for the flintlock.
Thanks for the info and I will be intouch once I get closer to being able to get a decent quality long gun.

Flatbow said:

Boy HSmithTX sounds like you really got into it from your post about 1 year ago when you decided you wanted one.

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Yes sir, I really don't do anything a little bit...... I also am primarily an archery hunter, I started muzzleloading to extend my season and spend more time with my son. I have gotten way into it, built a couple rifles, killed deer, I've gone completely overboard LOL. I was hooked from the word go. I built one caplock for my son, personally I don't own or want a cap gun, my rifles are flintlocks. I am starting a plank build now with a 67 cal barrel and have a 62 right behind it, both are intended to be elk rifles for tags I haven't been able to draw. I have planks and barrels and locks on hand to build 5 more rifles, my wife suggested it was an addiction but what does she know about flintlocks? I still consider myself primarily an archery hunter with a mild flintlock problem, it seems to fit because I can't seem to draw an archery elk tag either.

Decent quality locks are important, they don't need to be expensive or highly tuned to function, a typical Investarms or TC lock works fine in most cases if the flint is installed correctly. It needs to shave super fine shavings into the pan, that is where the heat comes from. Flint too far into the frizzen is way more common than not enough flint into the frizzen. Getting the flint installed correctly isn't very hard, study the geometry of how it works, move the flint in and out of the cock, bevel up and bevel down, take note of how it hits the frizzen, it will make sense. Combine a lock that will make a spark consistently with dry powder in the pan and a rifle is generally pretty darn reliable, my first was an Investarms 54 and it is flawlessly reliable if I do my part. Stamped lock plate, coil springs, cast internals, it's not anything even remotely 'nice' but it works very well. It shoots as good as I could ever expect too, it's fairly easy to shoot groups under 3" at 100 yards and it will do half that if I am having a good day. The TC rifles are equal in my mind, quality commodity pieces. With that said, a high quality lock like a Siler from Chambers that has been tuned up a little or a Kibler lock are faster and more positive than lesser quality locks. The hardest part of shooting a flintlock well is maintaining point of aim from sear release to ball leaving the barrel all while a flashy explosion is happening a few inches from your face LOL, a faster lock makes that easier and there are no cheap fast locks. Kibler locks right out of the package are really good, locks from Chambers are pretty solid and work well right out of the package but they do benefit from some clean up and tuning, I haven't been satisfied with any of the L&R locks out of the package and have spent up to 11-12 hours getting them to a point where I am happy vs maybe 2-3 hours on a Chambers lock. I think maybe Kibler's Ketland is the the fastest lock I own and it is right out of the package with nothing done to it but Chambers late Ketland with a little work is super close.

If I were to do it all again I think I would still get the Investarms or the TC to shoot and learn while figuring out what I really want and follow that with a Kibler kit, keep the common rifle for a loaner/bad weather/whatever rifle. I went right from the Investarms to building my own rifles from pieces and parts and it would have been more efficient to be able to see how it is supposed to be done vs figuring a lot of it out along the way. It's been a ton of fun and has completely captured my interest these days so all in all things have worked out well for me. I wish you the best as you start down the flintlock road!!

Greta06 said:

I would recommend using sabots over round balls for hunting. The hornady 240xtp hp is offered with a sabot, killed dozens of deer with this combo. I run 90 grains of 2f behind it with the same gun. I have several of the tc hawkens, it's a shame they quit making them...

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In case you haven't heard, Thompson has been resurrected. Product lines should be announced soon

I really don't need anymore hawkens, but will be curious to see what the quality is like if they do make muzzleloaders again.

None other than Greg Ritz is heading it up.
"I LOVE MUZZLELOADING" podcast had him on.

Here is link to podcast

Quality of the TC was good, before and after Smith bought them, not necessarily refined but every Compass I have seen shoots under an inch at 100 with most ammo. Encore also shot well. Their more traditional muzzleloaders shot good to great too. I would assume it will be as good or better than before, no faster way to kill a launch than to have crappy product.

What do you guys know or think of the Divide Pedersoli flintlocks?
Like their "Frontier" or Kentucky or Jager

For the money I would choose a Kibler over a Pedersoli every time. The Kibler has a world better lock and will go together pretty easily. Resale value on the Kibler will be a lot higher as well. Not that I think the Pedersoli is bad, it's just that the Kibler is that much better.

Thanks for the info.
I have just been trying to figure out if I will have the time this year to build a kit gun or just get one ready to shoot.
Problem is, I like nice stuff and beautiful wood like the fancy maples.
I used to build primitive and custom laminated recurves and long bows.

SHAZAM!!! Those are some outrageously cool bows!!! The layup in the risers are super nice, the best I have ever seen I think. If you can do that you can have a Kibler shooting in 8 hours or less and have the fit at a level that you are happy with. You can have it finished and shooting in 16 hours (not including dry time). Weekend to end of the next weekend for a guy that knows how to finish wood should be pretty easy. I can't wait to see how yours turns out!