Cold Bore fliers

Great advise Alex!

Quote: "I have never owned a quality barrel that would not put the cold bore shot in the group, and that was always tested at 1k" bears repeating.

Alex Wheeler said:

My advice is to clean the barrel every time you shoot it. Keep them clean. When its time to hunt, put 5 shots down it and leave it for hunting season. Double check zero with that fouled barrel after its sat at least one day. Cold bore fliers on a fouled barrel is usually a barrel problem. I have never owned a quality barrel that would not put the cold bore shot in the group, and that was always tested at 1k.

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A few posts back I said the same thing about quality barrels putting the first shot right in there. As for cleaning, I clean my LR rifles about every 50 rounds but I clean so that a patch soaked for two hours comes out clean (I don't use ammonia based solvents). My varmint guns I clean every 200 (for the simple fact that I shoot 100 to 200 rounds every time I go).

Ammonia based solvents will not hurt your bore unless you get a bad habit of walking off and forgetting about them. I have been using products like Sweets 7.62 and Montana Extreme Copper killer since the mid-80s when Sweets was first imported into the country. I had access to my first bore scope in 1987, used medical equipment.

Today, non-amonia products can do a great job, monitor with a bore scope to ensure you are not dealing with a a tough layer of carbon over the copper.

Years ago we learned a trick from an old gunsmith. When you have to clean a gun after a particularly dusty or dirty trip, you may not have the time to go and foul the barrel with a couple of shots. If you push a patch of alcohol through the barrel to remove the vast majority of oil, your cold bore shot should be right on the money depending on the distance you are shooting....this method works.

VinceMule said:

Ammonia based solvents will not hurt your bore unless you get a bad habit of walking off and forgetting about them. I have been using products like Sweets 7.62 and Montana Extreme Copper killer since the mid-80s when Sweets was first imported into the country. I had access to my first bore scope in 1987, used medical equipment.

Today, non-amonia products can do a great job, monitor with a bore scope to ensure you are not dealing with a a tough layer of carbon over the copper.

Years ago we learned a trick from an old gunsmith. When you have to clean a gun after a particularly dusty or dirty trip, you may not have the time to go and foul the barrel with a couple of shots. If you push a patch of alcohol through the barrel to remove the vast majority of oil, your cold bore shot should be right on the money depending on the distance you are shooting....this method works.

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Yes, I start out with carbon remover. When those patches start to come out blue (they seem to remove some copper as well), I switch to copper remover.

These inexpensive Teslong bore scopes are a game changer for clean bores because you can adapt your techniques to the particular bores you are dealing with.

Alex Wheeler said:

Cold bore fliers on a fouled barrel is usually a barrel problem. I have never owned a quality barrel that would not put the cold bore shot in the group, and that was always tested at 1k.

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I have never owned a quality barrel that didn't clean super easy. Factory barrels, not the case in my experience.

Hello folks, new guy here. Admittedly only read the first two pages, then the final page I'm on.

I do realize I'm new and there is a lot of experience here. I'm 75 years old. Been reloading for +3 decades. I came here to learn (about 22-250). Don't know about anything besides stock rifles, no modifications. But in my world everyone knows about a fouling shot. Maybe it's different in the competition or modified world, don't know. But if I'm out of line my apologies, but couldn't this be the OP's issue?

Just a question, not an argument. Or even to be construed as an argument. Some time KISS works. JMO.

lancetkenyon said:

Quit cleaning the rifle!

I don't clean until groups start to open up.
I have rifles right now with anywhere from 50-500+ rounds down the barrel.

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Same here: each barrel is different in my collection, that's why I keep a shot & cleaning record on each.

I agree with this. A clean bore will sometimes have a different POI

With oil in the barrel, the first shot on a clean, down to bare metal barrel is usually no more than 1/2" low at 100 yards, but you have to test every one you own and keep a record.

My question , is did you JB weld your base to the receiver or did you use relief agent. In my opinion it should be JB d to the receiver. this vary well may fix your issue.

JB weld with no release agent.

birddog 68 said:

I agree with this. A clean bore will sometimes have a different POI.
Don't clean it every 3 shots and see if there's a difference.

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This could very easily be the culprit.

I guess that I'm very lucky with flyers……seemingly caused only by operator error! I rarely, likely too rarely, clean my rifle bore.

In doing load development last summer, testing done with rifle and cartridges reaching 90+ F before testing. I was shooting 2 - 3 shot groups per target often days apart, watching for pressure indications/velocities/potential accuracy. I did not let the rifle to cool between shots……only enough time allowed to write down the shot velocity, and settle in on the bags for the next shot.

I was stepping-up charges @ 1 grain intervals. The targets, if placed on top of each other, would superimpose the groups over each other. In a couple of weeks of shooting, I suspect that if when superimposed, the size of the group would be under 2 -2 1/2" ……though, I haven't actually tried this.

That said, from a cold, clean bore my rifle seems to shoot to the same point of impact……almost imperceptible change from the sight in/zero group!

I consider myself very lucky in this regard! memtb