7 SAUM SA 26” VS 7 SAUM LA 24”

Hi everyone,

Longtime lerker here and this is my first post. I am finally getting around to building my "dream hunting rifle". I've been kind of holding off on this until a round like the 7 PRC was available. Now that it's here I've doing a metric **** ton of reading through forums about the 7mm PRC. However, the more I read about it the more I feel like the 7 SAUM might be a better choice. This is based on reading about how many people are getting clickers, having to use a wheeler reamer, the lack of performance compared to what was promised, and the small increase in velocity over the 7SAUM with a good amount of powder more. I would actually love a 7 MAX but it doesn't seem like brass is very available so that's kinda of the table.

With all of this in mind, the following is what I would like to achieve with this rifle. Roughly 3K FPS with the 175 ELDMs and more importantly, since I'm in CA, 3300ish with the heavier monos, 150ish grains. From what I have seen most people reaching these types of numbers are using long actions with long COALs. So my initial thought was to build a rifle using a long action and 24 inch carbon fiber barrel. But I'm curious if it would be better to build a short action and get the extra performance that you would get from long COALs by using a 26 inch barrel instead.

I realize I'm likely just splitting hairs here but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks everyone.

If you want performance use a medium (XM/XM+) or long action AND a 26" barrel, for SAUM or Max chamberings. Short action would be a mistake and a pain!

As far as SAUM vs Max, using ADG numbers, 73 vs 77grs capacity is listed.
Max brass is for sale every day at Sherman Wildcat Cartridges, and can also be formed using SAUM brass in a Max chamber. Load and shoot, presto.

Do not limit yourself on the front end, for satisfactory results on the tail end!
A lesson I learned the hard way-once. Good luck and shoot straight.

HBadger89 said:

Hi everyone,

Longtime lerker here and this is my first post. I am finally getting around to building my "dream hunting rifle". I've been kind of holding off on this until a round like the 7 PRC was available. Now that it's here I've doing a metric **** ton of reading through forums about the 7mm PRC. However, the more I read about it the more I feel like the 7 SAUM might be a better choice. This is based on reading about how many people are getting clickers, having to use a wheeler reamer, the lack of performance compared to what was promised, and the small increase in velocity over the 7SAUM with a good amount of powder more. I would actually love a 7 MAX but it doesn't seem like brass is very available so that's kinda of the table.

With all of this in mind, the following is what I would like to achieve with this rifle. Roughly 3K FPS with the 175 ELDMs and more importantly, since I'm in CA, 3300ish with the heavier monos, 150ish grains. From what I have seen most people reaching these types of numbers are using long actions with long COALs. So my initial thought was to build a rifle using a long action and 24 inch carbon fiber barrel. But I'm curious if it would be better to build a short action and get the extra performance that you would get from long COALs by using a 26 inch barrel instead.

I realize I'm likely just splitting hairs here but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks everyone.

Click to expand...

What type of hunting are you intending to use the rifle for?

I think that may help steer some components choices for you.

I have a 7 SAUM built on a SA I milled out to get out to 2.95" COL or so. I have a 24" Carbon Six barrel. Best I can get with Nosler 175gr ABLR is 2875 fps with 64.5gr of Retumbo with a little crunch on the powder. Maybe my barrel is slow, maybe Reloader 26 will get me further, but those are the facts or my situation. I get almost identical velocity with 160gr CX or a charge a little less and H1000. Monometals are tricky sometimes. You are not going to get those figures in a short action, XM action or long action maybe. I have a sherman short that does over 3k with 172 hammers with a 26" barrel. Still playing though.

HBadger89 said:

Hi everyone,

Longtime lerker here and this is my first post. I am finally getting around to building my "dream hunting rifle". I've been kind of holding off on this until a round like the 7 PRC was available. Now that it's here I've doing a metric **** ton of reading through forums about the 7mm PRC. However, the more I read about it the more I feel like the 7 SAUM might be a better choice. This is based on reading about how many people are getting clickers, having to use a wheeler reamer, the lack of performance compared to what was promised, and the small increase in velocity over the 7SAUM with a good amount of powder more. I would actually love a 7 MAX but it doesn't seem like brass is very available so that's kinda of the table.

With all of this in mind, the following is what I would like to achieve with this rifle. Roughly 3K FPS with the 175 ELDMs and more importantly, since I'm in CA, 3300ish with the heavier monos, 150ish grains. From what I have seen most people reaching these types of numbers are using long actions with long COALs. So my initial thought was to build a rifle using a long action and 24 inch carbon fiber barrel. But I'm curious if it would be better to build a short action and get the extra performance that you would get from long COALs by using a 26 inch barrel instead.

I realize I'm likely just splitting hairs here but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks everyone.

Click to expand...

Greetings from Big Sky Country! Welcome to LRH, and enjoy. It boils down to your preference. IIWY, I'd go with LA and 26" since you are willing to go with 26" in SA. With LA, you have more flexibility with those long mono bullets. Make sure you have the fast barrel twist for the bullet you will use. Below is a list of lead-free bullets I have compiled, one of which is from CA.

https://www.apex-outdoors.com/
https://axebullets.com/
https://badlandsprecision.com/
http://balistixbullets.com/home/
https://www.barnesbullets.com/
https://www.brenneke-ammunition.de/en/rifle-ammunition/lead-free-ammunition/
https://www.cavitybackbullets.com/
https://cuttingedgebullets.com
https://drtammo.com/
https://fortscottmunitions.com/collections/reloading-rifle-projectile-bullets
https://www.foxbullets.eu/
http://www.gscustomusa.com/tdhv.html
https://hammerbullets.com/
Nielsen Sonic (Nielsen Gun Parts) - https://www.deergear.co.uk/reloading-supplies/p/style-03-efmxs

http://impalabullets.co.za/
https://www.lapua.com/product/224-naturalis-hunting-bullet-n566-32-g-50-gr/
https://www.haslerbullets.com/en/monolithics-bullets/
https://www.hornady.com/
http://www.sapremiumbullets.co.za/sapremium-kriek.html
https://www.lehighdefense.com/bullets.html
https://makerbullets.com/
https://www.mcguireballistics.com/
https://www.mrrbullets.com/en/technology
https://www.northforkbullets.com/north-fork-bullet-design
https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en...-ecostrike-30-06-springfield-165gr---20177492
https://www.nosler.com/products/bullets.html
https://www.novxammo.com/
https://outeredgeprojectiles.com.au/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/solid-bullets/
https://www.pbm-ammo.com/bullets
https://peregrinemonolithics.com/
http://prvipartizan.com/leadless.php
https://www.remington.com/in-the-news/in-the-news-april142023.html
https://www.rhinobullets.co.za/solids-brass
https://rws-ammunition.com/en/infotainment/faq-frequently-asked-questions/lead-free-ammunition
Sabatti –
Sako - https://egunroom.com/sako-blade/
http://www.sapremiumbullets.co.za/sapremium-kriek.html
https://sinterfire.com/projectiles/
Titan monolithic fragmentation bullets -
https://www.viperbullets.com/shop/
https://www.virtusprecision.co.uk/products/
https://www.warner-tool.com/flat-line-bullets/
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Deer-Season-XP-Copper-Impact
Yew Tree Bullets - https://www.copperbullets.co.uk/online-shop/tipped-long-range

By the way, when I lived in Fairfield in the mid-1980s, we used to fish/troll for stripers in Benecia with great success.

Good luck!

Ed

Welcome from Illinois!
You will find what you need here!!

KH_Outdoors said:

What type of hunting are you intending to use the rifle for?

I think that may help steer some components choices for you.

Click to expand...

Mostly black tail out here in CA but I'm looking to be able to take this to my neighboring states to hunt Mule deer. I'd like to have enough power/speed to be able to take mule at around 6-700. Even though I have no intentions of doing that anytime soon. Feel free to let me know if I'm crazy for thinking the SAUM is sufficient for these goals and I should just go with the 7 PRC. Here to learn. Thanks.

7mm man said:

I have a 7 SAUM built on a SA I milled out to get out to 2.95" COL or so. I have a 24" Carbon Six barrel. Best I can get with Nosler 175gr ABLR is 2875 fps with 64.5gr of Retumbo with a little crunch on the powder. Maybe my barrel is slow, maybe Reloader 26 will get me further, but those are the facts or my situation. I get almost identical velocity with 160gr CX or a charge a little less and H1000. Monometals are tricky sometimes. You are not going to get those figures in a short action, XM action or long action maybe. I have a sherman short that does over 3k with 172 hammers with a 26" barrel. Still playing though.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the feedback and real world info. Thanks.

FEENIX said:

Greetings from Big Sky Country! Welcome to LRH, and enjoy. It boils down to your preference. IIWY, I'd go with LA and 26" since you are willing to go with 26" in SA. With LA, you have more flexibility with those long mono bullets. Make sure you have the fast barrel twist for the bullet you will use. Below is a list of lead-free bullets I have compiled, one of which is from CA.

https://www.apex-outdoors.com/
https://axebullets.com/
https://badlandsprecision.com/
http://balistixbullets.com/home/
https://www.barnesbullets.com/
https://www.brenneke-ammunition.de/en/rifle-ammunition/lead-free-ammunition/
https://www.cavitybackbullets.com/
https://cuttingedgebullets.com
https://drtammo.com/
https://fortscottmunitions.com/collections/reloading-rifle-projectile-bullets
https://www.foxbullets.eu/
http://www.gscustomusa.com/tdhv.html
https://hammerbullets.com/
Nielsen Sonic (Nielsen Gun Parts) - https://www.deergear.co.uk/reloading-supplies/p/style-03-efmxs

http://impalabullets.co.za/
https://www.lapua.com/product/224-naturalis-hunting-bullet-n566-32-g-50-gr/
https://www.haslerbullets.com/en/monolithics-bullets/
https://www.hornady.com/
http://www.sapremiumbullets.co.za/sapremium-kriek.html
https://www.lehighdefense.com/bullets.html
https://makerbullets.com/
https://www.mcguireballistics.com/
https://www.mrrbullets.com/en/technology
https://www.northforkbullets.com/north-fork-bullet-design
https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en...-ecostrike-30-06-springfield-165gr---20177492
https://www.nosler.com/products/bullets.html
https://www.novxammo.com/
https://outeredgeprojectiles.com.au/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/solid-bullets/
https://www.pbm-ammo.com/bullets
https://peregrinemonolithics.com/
http://prvipartizan.com/leadless.php
https://www.remington.com/in-the-news/in-the-news-april142023.html
https://www.rhinobullets.co.za/solids-brass
https://rws-ammunition.com/en/infotainment/faq-frequently-asked-questions/lead-free-ammunition
Sabatti –
Sako - https://egunroom.com/sako-blade/
http://www.sapremiumbullets.co.za/sapremium-kriek.html
https://sinterfire.com/projectiles/
Titan monolithic fragmentation bullets -
https://www.viperbullets.com/shop/
https://www.virtusprecision.co.uk/products/
https://www.warner-tool.com/flat-line-bullets/
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Deer-Season-XP-Copper-Impact
Yew Tree Bullets - https://www.copperbullets.co.uk/online-shop/tipped-long-range

By the way, when I lived in Fairfield in the mid-1980s, we used to fish/troll for strippers in Benecia with great success.

Good luck!

Ed

Click to expand...

****! That's a ton of work you just saved me! Thank you!

Ha, I've actually never put a line in the waters here haha but my son and I were just on a boat in the bay and caught 3 nice halibut and two stripers. Super cool experience.

HBadger89 said:

****! That's a ton of work you just saved me! Thank you!

Click to expand...

This site is about sharing information, learning, helping others, etc.

HBadger89 said:

Ha, I've actually never put a line in the waters here haha but my son and I were just on a boat in the bay and caught 3 nice halibut and two stripers. Super cool experience.

Click to expand...

Halibuts are good eats. I get to do some halibut fishing in AK next month.

Phil Rizzo said:

If you want performance use a medium (XM/XM+) or long action AND a 26" barrel, for SAUM or Max chamberings. Short action would be a mistake and a pain!

As far as SAUM vs Max, using ADG numbers, 73 vs 77grs capacity is listed.
Max brass is for sale every day at Sherman Wildcat Cartridges, and can also be formed using SAUM brass in a Max chamber. Load and shoot, presto.

Do not limit yourself on the front end, for satisfactory results on the tail end!
A lesson I learned the hard way-once. Good luck and shoot straight.

Click to expand...

Makes sense, I actually don't mind length and am really considering slapping a chad brake on whatever I configuration I decide to go with for no other reason other than it's cool to me haha. Plus it's easy to change out if I decide it was a dumb choice down the road.

The hunting out here is in pretty wide open terrain. I've also, done some bushwhacking with 9ft fly rods so a long rifle isn't a problem to me.

Ahhh that's where the ADG Sherman Brass is haha. I had read it was available but didn't see it listed on ADGs site.

Long action it is. Thanks Mr. Rizzo.

You might get close to 3000fps w. 175s in a 26" barreled 7SAUM if you run them warm. An XM/XM+/LA would definitely help the odds. But, 600-700 yards with a 175 @ even 2900fps is a no-brainer for mule deer and even elk. As long as the shooter is up to the task.

The 7MAX is just an Imp 40° SAUM case. You can fire form SAUM brass if you don't need headstamped brass like in Mexico. Those small gains in case capacity should make 3000 more realistic.

I have loaded for a few 7PRCs so far. 3000fps in a 26" w. 175s should be pretty easily achievable. Just stay away from Hornady brass. The 7PRC is just a beltless 7RM. More recoil than a 7SAUM, at about 8-10gr more powder burned for ~50-100fps. No deer on earth at 700 yards is going to know the difference if you hit them with the bullet leaving the muzzle at 2900 or 3000.

If you want a true SA cartridge, look at the 7SS. My 24" 7SS pushes a 184 Hyb between 2800-2916fps depending on powder choice (H1000, N565, or RL26), with my main hunting load @ 2884fps w. N565. Add about 80-100fps for 2" more barrel length and 9gr light bullet weight.

In the end a 100 fps or so doesn't mean the end of the world as long as the gun is super accurate, you can shoot it well in field positions, and it isn't a pain to carry all day in the field. Don't stress fps, the animal won't know the difference. Just make sure you know your bullets optimal expansion velocity. There is a minimum velocity recommended for all bullets to expand properly. Also listen to Lance, one he knows his stuff, two the 7 SS is great. As I mentioned I am still running mine through the testing stage, but it is very promising.

HBadger89 said:

Mostly black tail out here in CA but I'm looking to be able to take this to my neighboring states to hunt Mule deer. I'd like to have enough power/speed to be able to take mule at around 6-700. Even though I have no intentions of doing that anytime soon. Feel free to let me know if I'm crazy for thinking the SAUM is sufficient for these goals and I should just go with the 7 PRC. Here to learn. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I feel the 7 saum with either the 175-180 class cup/core lead's or a 140-150 class copper monolithic projectiles will work great for that. It will likely come in just a bit under your speed goals though.

Regarding the barrel length/action, I think you're right on track. Personally I have never had a 24" barrel get in my way hunting most western game. 26" is where I start to notice for whatever reason. I'm a big fan of medium length actions, the drawback there is that you're "limiting" yourself to certain cartridges if you ever want to re-barrel to something else like a 7 PRC or 28 Nosler... etc, but are you ACTUALLY ever going to do that? I probably won't. Components for medium actions are pretty abundant now so that's a non-issue for me.

Personally, I built my 7 saum with the following:

Chamber: 7 SAUM, .180" freebore reamer
Action: Lone Peak Fuzion ti Medium
Barrel: Benchmark 22" Carbon Sendero lite

AND... my current favorite pet loads

175 Berger Elite Hunter @ 2850 fps (63.5 gr N565)

143 McGuire Ballistics Copper Rose @ 3100 fps (63 gr H4831sc)

Both loads are on the warm side, and temp stable powders selected purposefully. I've gotten another 50-100 fps using powders like N560 & RL26 but I hunt from 0-85 degrees F with this gun. So give a little speed to get a little better temp stability.

I've killed out to 500 yards with this setup, and both bullets (175 EH & 143 CR).