winchester 1886

David_h said:

Looked at my notes. The copper bullets are long for weight so COAL is an issue for my Browning Miroku rifle. For the 300 grain Shock Hammer I had to trim the Starline brass from 2.098 to 2.043 for a COAL of 2.54 for my chamber.
View attachment 557035

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That rifle is absolutely stunning!

Starline brass
300 gr HP interlocks
46gr IMR 4198
CCI 250 primer (just because I got plenty)
Never leave home without it
Had to retire the blue one for the new SS Ruger

Sturner, what scope is that on the Marlin-Ruger. I am trying to decide what to put on my Marlin

Sig Tango MSR
1-6X24
Done got too old for my ghost ring

Yea, I'm having a tough time using open sights anymore

J Brady said:

Yea, I'm having a tough time using open sights anymore

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I feel you
Got in a bind and missed a pig couldn't pick it up fast enough so now it's the old man way

sturner said:

Sig Tango MSR
1-6X24
Done got too old for my ghost ring

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When in 1x does the Field of view get obscured much by the barrel? I have a rig (rifled shotgun) that does and I'm thinking the scope could be raised a little higher; kinda like yours?

No the reticule blocks out the front sight
I had to look because I leave it on 6X
You can see the barrel but it don't bother you

Elk868 said:

Hy all .
Got me an Winchester Model 1886 in 45/70 ,and i plan to load it with barnes bullets 300 grain . Can somebody help me to find an accurate load for it . f( if possible with vithavouri powder because we not get the most of american powders anymore ,. ) i have no experience in loading cases like 45/ 70



thank you all very much

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I did not read all the posts, so this may be a duplicate. In a 45-70, faster does NOT kill better, all it does is kick the crap out of the shooter. 1500 FPS is way more than enough speed to get the job done. Millions of Bison died from 45-70 and 50 cal projectiles going 1,100 fps.

The effect of speed on incapacitation is typically called Hydrostatic shock. That effect does not happen with projectiles travelling less than 2500 FPS. It is why Roy Weatherby built the beast of cartridge that is the 460 Weatherby Magnum. I owned one in a left hand action MKV. It produces awesome recoil, it is the only rifle I owned that has a brake on it. Despite all the roaring, flame and drama it does not kill any faster than my 45-70 and I have shot a lot of bears with both. I have also shot bears with a 45-70 loaded from1100 FPS to 2000. I can tell you from experience the sweat spot is 1400-1500 fps for quick kills, reasonably flat trajectory, at least by 45-70 standards, and quick second shot recovery. I have shot 45-70 out of everything from Trap Doors, 1186 Winchester, Marlin to Ruger #1s. In all of them, except the Trap Door that I loaded to 1,100 fps, my favourite load is a Hornady 350 grain RN over 3031 powder at 1500 fps. Substitute the correct powder available to you for this speed.

If you drive a 405 to 500 grain bullet at 1500 FPS it will go clear through a Bison. Making them go faster will NOT improve the results, it just beats the snot out of the shooter.

I have posted this on other 45-70 threads and it matches my experience as well.

This is by Randy Garret of Garret Ammunition Manufacturers.
https://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html

PENETRATION: THE 45-70 & 458 MAGNUMS

The following article is based on bullet penetration test results as measured in water-saturated penetration materials (wet newspapers). Water is the primary substance of life, and constitutes about 90% of the content of all mammals. I have observed that some "testers" have chosen wood boards or dry newspapers for penetration testing material, and this is a very poor choice, which in no way simulates the characteristics of a bullet impact with animal flesh. Wood tends to channel the bullet path, and is less demonstrative of the terminal instabilities inherent to non-expanding bullets when impacting game animals, and is thus an inferior material for the testing of bullet penetration characteristics. Water-saturated penetration materials such as newspapers or ballistic gelatin are far superior with regards to their ability to demonstrate the terminal instabilities that typically occur when non-expanding bullets impact live animal flesh. - Randy Garrett
There are few things in the world of ballistics less well understood than the issues relating to comparative penetration. It is commonly believed that the faster one drives a solid bullet, the deeper the penetration. We see this all the time in the various attempts, via new calibers, to achieve higher velocity for improved performance on heavy game. The current rage among big bore shooters seems to be the 458 Lott, since it achieves a good 200-300 fps higher velocity than the 458 Winchester Magnum. It is claimed that the new 458 Lott is an improvement over the 458 Winchester Magnum since its higher velocity supposedly results in more lethal impact-effect and deeper penetration. This, it is claimed, is just the ticket for busting the heaviest game. Of course, the new 458 Lott also achieves greater kinetic energy as a result of its higher velocity, and this is also a convincing characteristic for those brave souls in pursuit of the heaviest game.

Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common sense, repeatable penetration testing. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.

Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.

What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. This raises some interesting issues regarding the relationship between kinetic energy generation and impact-effect. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop.
Fortunately for all of us who shoot the 45-70, it can be considered to be the deepest penetrating of the various 458 calibers. This is not due to any particular inherent superiority, but due to the 45-70's "inability" to achieve the velocity with heavy bullets that leads to decreases in penetration. The reasons why high impact speeds reduce penetration are not well understood. However, anyone who takes the time to run comparative penetration tests will find that those of us who pack a good 45-70 with heavy bullets need not take a back seat to any other 458 caliber, especially when the game is heavy and the penetration requirements are great.
- Randy Garrett

my 45-70,s, my to go load is H-4198 with a 300 gr HP or FN at 2000 fps. as i only shoot broadside double lung shots no meat is lost. my pedersoli 74 sharps target is only used with the same powder, but only cast lead bullets

7mm man said:

I have been wanting to shoot the 40-65. It seemed like every time I found brass on Gunbroker for a decent price someone snags it for the buy now price. I need to get my butt moving and at least get some handloads going. Starline makes brass but they never have any in stock, which makes me think they have not made any in a long time. That sucker is heavy too. Probably would be just fine for deer stand hunting though.

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I was able to aquire my Great Grandfathers 1886 in 40-65 wcf from an uncle recently and started my quest for reloading components immediately. However that task was short lived when I ran across this at a local shop. I have not shot it yet. Even though the action cycles great the rounds feeding in the tube were getting hung up. I have been replacing parts but I think I'm going to have to swap out the tube. Beautiful rifle you have there and the story behind it is very amazing.

I was in the same position with my grandfather's 45-70.

I highly recommend having the bore sleeved. You can't tell it was ever modified.

Good luck.

Who does bore sleeving . I have my great grandpa's 1886 49-90 and it has some bore issues