AZ Coues deer-6.5 Creedmore and Hammers

Glenn Tullius

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As I promised... a report on my Coues deer hunt in AZ, with the 6.5 Creed, and the 85 grain Hammers. I harvested a beautiful 110" buck at 430 yards! My gun is a Wby Vanguard RC, stock box factory. Range Certified (RC), with a Leupold Vx6, 4-12 power, with the CDS dial, for the 85 grain Hammer at a blistering 3455 fps ave. My load for the Hammers shoots under .600" at 200 yards routinely. Having said that...

First shot at 458 yards, CDS set at 460, was 3" over the back, guide witness vapor trail. Second shot at 434 after CDS adjustment hit him just under the spine, buck never flinched, but started walking down hill. Third shot now at 429 after two clicks down, and hit him about 4" left of heart and 3" inches low. Buck jumped and kicked hind legs like a heart shot. All three perfect for windage.

After a half hour (never saw him lay down) we crossed the canyon and started trailing from second shot (no blood or hair), and second hit showed 3-4 blood spots, with one being about 3" diameter dark red blood.

We then painstakingly slow TRAILED THIS BUCK, with almost no blood at all, for 4 1/2 HOURS. He walked slowly the whole time, which gave me some hope, but crushed me when he started back up hill across the canyon, and we lost his trail. Decision time, looked like he when up the right side once, so instinct told me to go up the left and it proved correct. After climbing about 150 yards, I saw him walking slowly through brush and cactus, and when he stopped I dropped him at 137 yards with the finisher!

Observations: meat under spine was destroyed, with a few pedals found, small hole in, small hole out. Broad side shot, small hole in, small hole out. I would have thought either one would have been deadly in 50 yards. All blood stayed internal and in 6-7 feet of brush and cactus, all I can say is luck and Divine Intervention saved me from the loss of a B&C buck. Had we not trailed him so slow (and had to) he could have laid down, and we never would have found him. My guide remarked with jubilation, " I tell everybody all the time these bigger Coues bucks can be hard to kill"... I agree.
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Great buck and great effort finding it....congratulations. What is your opinion on the bullets for on game performance? CDS style dials have a place in a few instances, and I much prefer a MOA style (Leupold TMOA as example) reticle with known hold over/windage marks and click adjustments with a chart taped to the stock. I have hunted from 500'/70 deg to 8,000'/10 deg. within a couple weeks. I have never been unable to make a new chart to match the conditions. I have CDS dials sitting in the drawer....they are included in the scope so I have them just dont use them.
 
Bad bullet performance, one might have been a fluke 3 something wrong with bullet. Congrats on great buck. Crazy how much money and time we put into a hunt and have to depend on that bullet so much. I tried the Hammers, but just didn't trust them.

What was your experience, if you don't mind posting?

Of course you might suffer myriad attacks from Hammer lovers. ;)
 
As I promised... a report on my Coues deer hunt in AZ, with the 6.5 Creed, and the 85 grain Hammers. I harvested a beautiful 110" buck at 430 yards! My gun is a Wby Vanguard RC, stock box factory. Range Certified (RC), with a Leupold Vx6, 4-12 power, with the CDS dial, for the 85 grain Hammer at a blistering 3455 fps ave. My load for the Hammers shoots under .600" at 200 yards routinely. Having said that...

First shot at 458 yards, CDS set at 460, was 3" over the back, guide witness vapor trail. Second shot at 434 after CDS adjustment hit him just under the spine, buck never flinched, but started walking down hill. Third shot now at 429 after two clicks down, and hit him about 4" left of heart and 3" inches low. Buck jumped and kicked hind legs like a heart shot. All three perfect for windage.

After a half hour (never saw him lay down) we crossed the canyon and started trailing from second shot (no blood or hair), and second hit showed 3-4 blood spots, with one being about 3" diameter dark red blood.

We then painstakingly slow TRAILED THIS BUCK, with almost no blood at all, for 4 1/2 HOURS. He walked slowly the whole time, which gave me some hope, but crushed me when he started back up hill across the canyon, and we lost his trail. Decision time, looked like he when up the right side once, so instinct told me to go up the left and it proved correct. After climbing about 150 yards, I saw him walking slowly through brush and cactus, and when he stopped I dropped him at 137 yards with the finisher!

Observations: meat under spine was destroyed, with a few pedals found, small hole in, small hole out. Broad side shot, small hole in, small hole out. I would have thought either one would have been deadly in 50 yards. All blood stayed internal and in 6-7 feet of brush and cactus, all I can say is luck and Divine Intervention saved me from the loss of a B&C buck. Had we not trailed him so slow (and had to) he could have laid down, and we never would have found him. My guide remarked with jubilation, " I tell everybody all the time these bigger Coues bucks can be hard to kill"... I agree.View attachment 308345
Good job great buck
 
Good job great buck
The thing is, the bullet did what it was supposed to according to Hammers description: without destroying meat. They are superbly accurate, tolerate any seat depth practically, but if I were to do it again I would choose a heaver bullet, say, the 123 grain Hammer. However, for this hunt in tall brush cover and cactus, I would shoot a Scirrocco, a ballistic tip, or a maybe a Berger, just anything that puts a BIG EXIT HOLE IN IT!!
 
I hate to be the first one to say it, but you showed up to the fight extremely undergunned and unprepared for a 460 yard shot. That CDS turret is garbage unless you've personal verified it at every single yardage. 2 MOA off (high) at 460 yards is unacceptably far. I love hammers, but an 85gr. bullet out of a 6.5 CM at 460 yards is hardly a lethal big game setup. None of this was a failure of anything besides the failure to understand what it truly takes to kill an animal at a long distance. I am definitely glad you got your buck and happy for you. Don't get me wrong about that. But this should seriously be looked at by you and anyone else that thinks these small cartridges and tiny bullets are good for long range killing. They simply are not. And relentless ballistic prep work before the hunt is mandatory if you think you're going to be shooting long distance.
 
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I have to agree with Huntnful. I think you should have titled the thread 6.5 Creedmoor and luepold cds issues. The scope is guiding the bullet, especially if dialing. I don't think it would have mattered what bullet brands you shot. I'm extremely impressed with your buck and tenacity to track and follow up, but I don't think your story authenticates actual drops and practicing with the cds turret
 
That's one heck of a Cows venado!

Glad you found him.

Personally my CDS experiences have been different than the previous posters who've used them (or at least I assume they've used them). Out to 500-600 depending on round they've worked very well for me.

If you'd of been using my 22/250 with the 60 Horn HP's, 55 Horn w/c's or 63 Sierras that buck would of hit the turf right now!

You 6.5 CM is a wonderful Coues rig, try working up a load with a 120 NBT or a 123 Scenar and you'll be golden!

If you choose to look at a different scope (which I don't think you need to for these kinds of mid ranges then maybe see if Leupold would outfit your scope with a M1 on top. Or, take a close look at a SWFA in 10X.

Glad you recouped the buck, it's a heck of a grey ghost eh:)
 
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