Hey wildcatters

Greetings, I have a question to those capable and willing to create wildcat cartridges.
I havent seen anything based on the 7.5x55 swiss cartridge in the wildcat department. Do any exist?. Military brass although being berdan primed is super stout. Ppu makes boxer primed brass which i use often. Question is why not neck this bad boy down to a 7mm, 6.5 , or even a 6mm , or up? A 338x55 ? The case has the same capacity (nearly) as the 06 and is shorter. Im guessing that the 55 milimeter length puts the cartridge between a short and long action negating the use of standard short actions, but at the same time we could use a long action and set a it up for some looooooong bullets. What say ye noble cartridge tinkerers? Sure many will say that there is no reason, it would be just like xxxxxx, but to me thats where all of the fun is. Let me know your thought. I will purchase the reamer and dies from anybody who wants to give it a go if it is within reason.

Oldschool280 said:

Greetings, I have a question to those capable and willing to create wildcat cartridges.
I havent seen anything based on the 7.5x55 swiss cartridge in the wildcat department. Do any exist?. Military brass although being berdan primed is super stout. Ppu makes boxer primed brass which i use often. Question is why not neck this bad boy down to a 7mm, 6.5 , or even a 6mm , or up? A 338x55 ? The case has the same capacity (nearly) as the 06 and is shorter. Im guessing that the 55 milimeter length puts the cartridge between a short and long action negating the use of standard short actions, but at the same time we could use a long action and set a it up for some looooooong bullets. What say ye noble cartridge tinkerers? Sure many will say that there is no reason, it would be just like xxxxxx, but to me thats where all of the fun is. Let me know your thought. i will purchase the reamer and dies from anybody who wants to give it a go

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Because there are...

... no reliable source of good brass.

... no need for it.

... there are better cases available.

It might be fun for you... if so, dig up the money and do it, but it will be dead in the water before the first chamber is cut.

Wildcats made to fill a need do well, but wildcats made out of boredom die an early death.

Any not so negative thoughts?

Oldschool280 said:

but to me thats where all of the fun is.

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I'm by no means an expert as I only have two wildcats at this time but I think you just answered your own question.

"IF" your heart is really into it, I say do it ... that's what wildcatting is all about. gun)

Good luck on your endeavor and have fun with it.

Wildcat efforts should aim to improve a specific existing cartridge, or develop an entirely new cartridge, for a targeted use. It may sound like fun to change something for no more than the sake of that effort, but don't expect a big following there. And there are already way too many cartridges that make no sense at all today.

We have the 6.5x55, which IMO represents the perfect capacity for best in 26cal bullets. So then this capacity will not be perfect for best bullets in any other cal (again, IMO).
Also, this same capacity is achieved in 260Imp, opening the way for the Lapua brass in large and small primers. I did the same with 6.5wssm Imp, before Lapua 260 brass, but now that wssm brass is disappearing, it no longer makes sense to continue with it.
That's for 26cal.
Best for Larger cal bullets would require more capacity, or new action design(for way higher pressures).

You might wonder what I consider 'best'. Well it's best overall,, as it's not beaten(overall) by any other capacity. A 6Dasher provides this best capacity in 24cal, given that in broad performance consideration, no other 24cal cartridge beats it.
A 6PPC edges a 6Dasher in a very limited venue(PB BR). Same for variants of 243Imp(terminal). But the 6Dasher covers those areas very well(even while not best), and greatly defeats both in other areas(like LR accuracy & brass & barrel life).
If you were to score it across a pros/cons table, you could see this -before ever firing one.

Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to answer that .

Oldschool280 said:

Any not so negative thoughts?

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With wildcatting, you may have both negative and positive, so here is my take on it.

Some reasons for wild catting.=

1 = To improve on performance.

2 = To be able to use other sources/calibers of brass.

3 = To have something that fills you needs better than anything available.

4 = To have something that no one else has.

5 = To find out the cause and effect of changing a cartridge.

The negative side can be =

1 = Having to fire form.

2 = Buy special dies.

3 = No load data to start with.

4 = Finding the best powder for the altered case.

5 = The most important thing , is to make all the right decisions when specking the chamber reamer.

There is no reason to wildcat a cartridge that cant be re loaded easily (Like a berdan primed case).

I recommend improving the original case design by changing the body taper (Less body taper helps minimize the bolt loading) and changing the shoulder angle to a steeper angle to increase brass life.

Keep the case head to neck shoulder dimension the same so you can use the original ammo and fire form at the same time with great accuracy.

Wild catting can be fun and rewarding if you choose wisely and don't get carried away.

J E CUSTOM

Oldschool280 said:

Any not so negative thoughts?

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If you want one, do it. The 257 Roberts started life as a 7-57 necked down.

All the Xmm-57 Mauser based designs were at one point a "wildcat" of the Base 8mm Mauser. I believe only the 30-06 and 7.62-51 were "purpose designed" for military, yet even those use the same base/rim dimensions as the Mauser.

There is very little deviation from the base/rim standards of .378, .473 and .534. The list is longer, however, this makes my point that everything is made from something else. Truly new, from scratch designs do not happen very often.

so

IMHO the majority of chamberings are derivatives (wildcat) of something else. The ones that "solved a problem" for more than one shooter became more popular. Then they were adopted by one or more manufacturers and were no longer considered wildcats.

J E Custom said:

Keep the case head to neck shoulder dimension the same so you can use the original ammo and fire form at the same time with great accuracy.

J E CUSTOM

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Improved cartridges like the 243 AI have never been considered "Wildcats".

To be a wildcat, the case must be formed and changed before the first chambering, even if a final "fireforming" is the last step in the process. For example, the "30 Gibbs".

A wildcat cannot be made by shoving a factory round into the gun and firing it.

I did design a wildcat in my "ute" the "222 Long Neck". With very limited success.

CatShooter said:

Improved cartridges like the 243 AI have never been considered "Wildcats"....

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Humbly, I disagree.

Before P.O. Ackley any such change was a "wildcat". After P.O. Ackley it was "Ackleyized", however, it's still not a "factory" chambering. Just becuase you can load factory ammunition and come out with the "improved" version of the brass does not mean it's not a "wildcat".

I'm pretty sure you can put 7mm RM into a 7mm Weatherby and come out with Weatherby formed brass though a little short.

Once there is a SAMMI spec for it, does it loose it's wildcat status? Not every "Ackleyized" derivative has a SAMMI.

jfseaman said:

Humbly, I disagree.

Before P.O. Ackley any such change was a "wildcat". After P.O. Ackley it was "Ackleyized", however, it's still not a "factory" chambering. Just becuase you can load factory ammunition and come out with the "improved" version of the brass does not mean it's not a "wildcat".

I'm pretty sure you can put 7mm RM into a 7mm Weatherby and come out with Weatherby formed brass though a little short.

Once there is a SAMMI spec for it, does it loose it's wildcat status? Not every "Ackleyized" derivative has a SAMMI.

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You can disagree if you like, but you need some history, or it is just an unfounded opinion.

"Before P.O. Ackley any such change was a "wildcat". After P.O. Ackley it was "Ackleyized","

Wrong - before Ackley, people didn't fireform cases so they couldn't be called wildcats. It is called Ackley because Ackley developed the process.

"Just because you can load factory ammunition and come out with the "improved" version of the brass does not mean it's not a "wildcat". "

Wrong - "You" can call it anything you like, but we have a language so that people can communicate ideas and others can understand them... if people call it a car, you are free to call it a boat, but you are not communicating an idea to anyone.
If you have an improved case, and you want to tell people that you have a wildcat, be my guest... but you are NOT a wildcatter.

When Nosler sent the in Ackley 280, SAAMI rejected it as "Poor Engineering Practice" (because all Ackleys are "Poor Engineering Practice").... so Nosler moved the shoulder ~20 thou before SAAMI would accept it. So, it is not (in the strictest of terms) and "Ackley".

No other improved cases are on the SAAMI list of cartridges.

There are Factory cartridges, Improved cartridges, and Wildcats... that is the way it is. The fact that you think differently, does not change it.

It is how it has been described long before I was born, and I am as old as dirt. (just ask my son).

"Once there is a SAMMI spec for it, does it loose it's wildcat status?"

Yes... The 22-250 (1937) was a wildcat for almost 30 years until Remington got it accepted as a factory cartridge in 1965. It is now a factory cartridge. Same with the 17 MK-4 to eventually become the Rem 17 FireBall.
Same with the 257 Roberts and others...

Does that answer your question?

Mikecr said:

Wildcat efforts should aim to improve a specific existing cartridge, or develop an entirely new cartridge, for a targeted use. It may sound like fun to change something for no more than the sake of that effort, but don't expect a big following there. And there are already way too many cartridges that make no sense at all today.

We have the 6.5x55, which IMO represents the perfect capacity for best in 26cal bullets. So then this capacity will not be perfect for best bullets in any other cal (again, IMO).
Also, this same capacity is achieved in 260Imp, opening the way for the Lapua brass in large and small primers. I did the same with 6.5wssm Imp, before Lapua 260 brass, but now that wssm brass is disappearing, it no longer makes sense to continue with it.
That's for 26cal.
Best for Larger cal bullets would require more capacity, or new action design(for way higher pressures).

You might wonder what I consider 'best'. Well it's best overall,, as it's not beaten(overall) by any other capacity. A 6Dasher provides this best capacity in 24cal, given that in broad performance consideration, no other 24cal cartridge beats it.
A 6PPC edges a 6Dasher in a very limited venue(PB BR). Same for variants of 243Imp(terminal). But the 6Dasher covers those areas very well(even while not best), and greatly defeats both in other areas(like LR accuracy & brass & barrel life).
If you were to score it across a pros/cons table, you could see this -before ever firing one.

Click to expand...

What is the "best" in 30 caliber?

Oldschool280 said:

Any not so negative thoughts?

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Not trying to pour salt in the wound, but I think you sort of answered your own question about the particular wildcat mentioned when you said it was virtually identical to the .30-06 case. That means performance would be similar to the already well-established .30-06, and we also know how many wildcats/SAAMI cartridges that have been designed off of that case as well.

Now, that being said, it would be unique and fun to own, shoot, and make brass for, and that is partially what wildcatting it all about.

CatShooter said:

...There are Factory cartridges, Improved cartridges, and Wildcats... that is the way it is. The fact that you think differently, does not change it.
...
Does that answer your question?

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I didn't have a question.

You made my point very well.

Please. Let's agree to disagree. To me an "improved" cartridge is a wildcat, to you it's "Improved" but not a wildcat.

I'm good with that.