The “other” hpbt bullets for hunting?

[ronstone09]

Just curious if there's actually a notable difference between bergers and the others of comparable design. I struggle to see why there would be. For what it's worth the bulk of my hunting so far has been between 150 and 250 yards, mostly with old school hornady interlocks. I'm just an inquisitive type. There's no shortage of reports out there of "paper punchers" attaining more emphatic terminal performance than dedicated hunting bullets.

try nosler accubonds , ive had good results on elk and moose to 30p yards with these bullets!

 

[NEMTHunter]

try nosler accubonds , ive had good results on elk and moose to 30p yards with these bullets!

Are they a HPBT bullet?

 

[tbrice23]

Are they a HPBT bullet?

WHATTT. LOLROTF...just spit out coffee.

 

[chilli42]

The right bullet depends on so many factors. When hunting I am looking for a quick ethical kill. Of course the animal you are hunting, how frangible the bullet is, the distance you will be shooting at and how accurate it is matters a great deal when considering "quick ethical kill". I have had good success shooting Mule Deer at around 150 yards with Hornady A-MAX which is also a bullet I use at range out to 500 yards with some success.

 

[skipglo]

Not wanting to turn this into a debate about the accuracy of "hunting" bullets, or the ethics of hunting with "target" bullets, or the competing philosophies of what constitutes ideal terminal performance, or the question of how far is too far.

Just wondering if anyone has anything to say good or bad about what they've observed or experienced with non-tipped conventional hpbt/otm match bullets, especially the three I've listed.

I doubt anyone on here would have any intent other than the pursuit of fast ethical kills. I doubt anyone on here would be saying that conventional hunting bullets are incapable of accuracy, and of course if there's an implication that they don't kill and aren't accurate our experiences would dismiss that. Let's have an accusation, assumption, condescension free conversation about an interesting subject from as objective a standpoint as possible, please, everybody.

The Sierra Match kings have given me excellent results on game and paper. I would never have believed the penetration I have witnessed by a 300 gr hollow point ( .338 lapua).punching thru a 3/4" steel plate at 300 yards. I found a bullet in my Elk shot at 489 yards just under the skin on the opposite side of course...weighed it and found it retained 220 grs. One shot one step....quite the paper punchers I'd say. Same basic results with 30 cal 212 HP hornady's...steel plate craters approximately 5/8-11/16"..have shot Elk, Moose and deer with them from 50 yrds-550 yards.

 

[NEMTHunter]

WHATTT. LOLROTF...just spit out coffee.

LOL... Yea I could not help myself. My brother shoots them. Always have worked.

 

[RT2506]

I shot a good number of deer with the 168 Sierra MK out of 30-06 and 308 Win for a couple years doing crop damage control. Most of the time they exhibited total expansion/fragmentation about like the Berger VLD "hunting" bullets but most of my shots were within 300 yards. About 1 in 25 deer shot the bullet would pencil through. After seeing some of these bullets after they had impacted the berm at the shooting range I came to the conclusion that this is what may be happening with the pencil through shots. Some of the bullets in the berm were intact with only the nose being folded over sideways and others the nose had collapsed in on it's self making it look like a round nose fmj. Other bullets came apart with just jacket and lead pieces laying around. This may be due like others have reported the nose being inconsistent in the HP not being open enough on some. I experimented with different bullets and calibers for 15 years doing crop damage control. Most of the bullets used were designed as hunting bullets. I came to the conclusion that most cup and core bullets work very well on deer as long as you keep the impact velocity under 3000 fps and above 1500 fps. One hunting bullet that is a BTHP is the Sierra .308, 165 gr. It is as accurate as the Match King but has a tougher jacket and a HP designed to expand. It always expanded for me and exhibited about the same results as a soft point bullet. This bullet works really well in M1 Garand and M1A1 rifles ff you want to hunt with them. I have used the Sierra 69 gr MK to ground hog hunt with 223 Rem. and I can't remember of a time that it did not expand leaving quarter size or larger exits.

 

[YZ-80]

Well, to my surprise the other day I opened up my reloading cabinet and realized that the 85 grain HPBT (Sierra #1530) was actually a Gameking, so I'm going to try them this fall on a crop damage doe and see how they do. I had developed a load for them in my Cooper Custom Classic and have obliterated groundhogs with this bullet, so it should perform well on deer I figure.

Personally, I don't have any qualms about trying something like a 168 grain match on game. You don't necessarily need a wide wound channel to kill. Violent shock/cavitation come into play too and should be a consideration IMHO.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have had great results with several SMK/TMKs.

.224" 69 SMK @ 3033fps on javalina, coyote, and doe mule deer
.257" 100 SMK @ 3080fps out to 1327 on coyote, and several javalina and mule deer
.264"/6.5mm 142 SMK @ 2830-3155 on a few mule deer and several coyotes, and seen them at work on pronghorn too
.264"/6.5mm 150 SMK @ 3117fps on pronghorn and coyotes, awesomeness, DRT
.284"/7mm 183 SMK @ 2970fps on coyotes and one cow elk, devastating
.284"/7mm 160 TMK @ 2991 on a coyote, nearly cut him in half from about 30 yards
.308" 175 SMK @ 3350fps on bull elk, one of the fastest, instantaneous deaths I have ever witnessed @ 160 yards
.308" 210 SMK @ 3100 on bull & cow elk
.338" 300 SMK @ 2800ish on a bull elk...wow (not mine, but witnessed)

I was going to run the .243"/6mm 110 SMK in my 6CM, but the 105 Hybrid shoots so good, I can't force myself to stray from it.

 

[Calvin45]

Well, to my surprise the other day I opened up my reloading cabinet and realized that the 85 grain HPBT (Sierra #1530) was actually a Gameking, so I'm going to try them this fall on a crop damage doe and see how they do. I had developed a load for them in my Cooper Custom Classic and have obliterated groundhogs with this bullet, so it should perform well on deer I figure.

Personally, I don't have any qualms about trying something like a 168 grain match on game. You don't necessarily need a wide wound channel to kill. Violent shock/cavitation come into play too and should be a consideration IMHO.

I see your point but of course the broader the wound channel (mechanical wounding, not temporary cavities or hydraulic shock) the faster the kill and the more forgiveness for marginal hits

I have had great results with several SMK/TMKs.

.224" 69 SMK @ 3033fps on javalina, coyote, and doe mule deer
.257" 100 SMK @ 3080fps out to 1327 on coyote, and several javalina and mule deer
.264"/6.5mm 142 SMK @ 2830-3155 on a few mule deer and several coyotes, and seen them at work on pronghorn too
.264"/6.5mm 150 SMK @ 3117fps on pronghorn and coyotes, awesomeness, DRT
.284"/7mm 183 SMK @ 2970fps on coyotes and one cow elk, devastating
.308" 175 SMK @ 3350fps on bull elk, one of the fastest, instantaneous deaths I have ever witnessed @ 160 yards
.308" 210 SMK @ 3100 on bull & cow elk
.338" 300 SMK @ 2800ish on a bull elk...wow (not mine, but witnessed)

I was going to run the .243"/6mm 110 SMK in my 6CM, but the 105 Hybrid shoots so good, I can't force myself to stray from it.

Good call, if the hybrid is working don't fix what ain't broke! Then again, one never knows what's possible if they don't try... (hehe).

I'd have no doubts whatsoever about the tmk. Tipped match bullets are another ball game altogether, violent fragmentation is almost guaranteed.

 

[Calvin45]

try nosler accubonds , ive had good results on elk and moose to 30p yards with these bullets!

Again, no disrespect but I'm not after recommendations for hunting bullets, I'm inquiring, in an almost scientific manner, about the terminal behaviour of hpbt bullets. I know accubonds work (as do the plain vanilla soft points I've used for most of my life, very effective indeed). That's not in question nor is it the question. I myself am planning to load up some trophy bonded tips in my 270 and 300 wm sometime soon, as far as the use of premium hunting bullets goes.

 

[Mustang72]

20+ years ago I shot 2 nice whitetail bucks with 168 smk out of my 30/06. First one worked great -50 cent exit,dropped in tracks. Second one dropped in tracks then got up and ran off never to be seen again without enough blood to trail.
Now use a 165 hpbt gameking with no problems. Just as accurate and more reliable performance.

 

[YZ-80]

I'd have no doubts whatsoever about the tmk. Tipped match bullets are another ball game altogether, violent fragmentation is almost guaranteed.

That's encouraging because I'm gonna try a 77 TMK later this fall too out of my RRA-VA4 on deer. Ranges will be anywhere from 90 to 250 yards and I chrono'd them at 2,700 FPS (24 gains of TAC). Sound reasonable?

 

[bigbull]

I find it quite disturbing that a match bullet has managed to take a foothold and succeeded in establishing itself as a hunting bullet when conventional orthodoxy always maintained that match bullets were not ethical choices for hunting.
The manufacturers never condoned their target bullets for hunting but here comes Berger that manages to position itself as a hunting bullet when previous bullets of similar design from Sierra and others were always considered fragile and succeptible to separation because of their boat tail and thin jacket conventional designs, I like Bergers and other similar designs but not for ethical hunting with their explosive performance upon impact, I much prefer controlled expansion bullets like the Partition, Accubond, Scirroco and others. I have been witness to the massive meat loss with Bergers, no thanks, those kills are not ethical when the whole deer shoulder is blown off.
my .02
BB