short vs long mag

Phil Rizzo said:
Mem I'm gonna have to chime in with you now.
My first SA rifle was built in 2017, a 7ss.

Growing up and through my teens and on, my 25/06 was used as a 22-250 and a .270


But I'm ready to try a shorter and larger diameter version.
Click to expand...

Aging and developing more maturity and logic is……soooooo boring! 😉 Next thing you know, you'll become responsible! 😁 memtb
 
Calvin45 said:
I'll admit I have zero experience with any short mag, and very little with short action cartridges in general. Maybe if I tried them I'd see the light and never look back haha but I for one love my long and magnum length action cartridges.

I do see the merit in short barrel performance in a light handy rifle tho, the newer 6.8 western especially is honestly is the most appealing of the short mags to me were I do desire one, the original .300 and .270 wsm cartridges are certainly worth being here as well.

But one thing I never quite understood is what on earth people really notice regarding bolt throw length on a .308 vs a .30-06. I know the .308 is a bit shorter…I don't think it matters and I don't notice it in the field or at the bench enough either way to desire the short action for that reason, it's not a very good reason as far as im concerned.

The other thing I dont get is the purported weight savings IF you're comparing short mags to 06-length standard cartridges. Yes the action/receiver is shorter but it needs to be fatter/beefier too! If the stock and barrel weight are equal, would a .300 wsm rifle really be any lighter than a .30-06 rifle with its 1/2" shorter action? I doubt it. Now it would outperform it a bit, which is fully acknowledged and fine, performance is great, I've heard short fat cartridges are more inherently accurate and efficient, no argument here, I just don't buy the marketing side of things that makes it seem like the difference in bolt throw and rifle weight are what make short action magnums appealing. I certainly don't notice it in the real world and couldn't care less either way.

I'm trapped in the past I suppose though, somehow all 4 of my magnums are not only long or magnum length actions, but they're BELTED too 😱

At present the magnums are .257 weatherby, 300 win mag, .358 Norma mag, and .450 ackley. Still have my .270. Used to have a .308 and a .223, sold them, don't miss them, they didn't do anything for me. Also had a 8x57, a "medium" action haha that was nonetheless no shorter than a .30-06 action, sold that, don't miss it either.

The only short action rifle I have right now is a .243 win in a savage 99 that is a family heirloom and I honestly don't shoot it much at all, some years never. I guess I just don't like the shorties.
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Calvin I grew up on long Weatherby belted magnums and they r near and dear to me still. Especially that 257 mag. But now it sits in the safe mostly and I look at it once in a while with fond memories.
I say the weight savings claims made on short mag rifles vs long is that usually they are offered in 1-2" shorter barrel
Versions. That plus a slightly shorter action that's stiffer and lighter than a long action give u a "slight" edge in weight.
Short mags are t earth shattering better but for for me , now, for a long range hunting rifle that may have to be toted up and down terrain, I'll take any advantage I can reasonably get

Silky
 
downandlow……I wish to say Welcome from North Central Wyoming!

In reading you're post, I'm inclined to believe that you know Calvin! So, it's already too late to warn you about with whom you associate! 😜

In spite of your misguided youth….I offer a sincere welcome. I suspect that Calvin would be a pretty good guy to have as a bud! memtb
 
I have SA (standard) and long action magnums, but none are the super short magnums like the WSM built actions.
I have 257 & 270 Weatherby magnums, 264WM & 338WM on short cases, then 300WM on normal standard length actions. I also have 7STW, 300Bee, 340Bee, 375Bee & 6.5-300Bee on magnum length actions.
I see no difference in bolt throw or action weight until we start talking about barrel contour and length.
My 25-300WSM is in a standard length Win Model 70, rarely screw that barrel on these days, as high BC bullets are few and far between in 25 cal and suitable for 10" twists.

Cheers.
 
I remember when there were only standard length actions, and magnum length actions (not too many of them.) If you wanted 300 Wby you needed a magnum action. Then Winchester came out with their 300 WM to fit in their standard action. It really didn't appeal to me then, and still doesn't. I have had both, there are pros and cons, but all things equal, they are not equal. The Weatherby has more capacity, which gives more performance. The 300 WSM vs 300 WM, same thing, just two different cartridges with a similar name and parents.
Now as to "short" magnums vs "long" magnums, you really can't make a fair comparison unless both cases are the same capacity. Either may do exactly what you need, both have pros and cons, but to say the short powder column is better than the long, they need to be the same capacity. That will tell the story, and there are benefits to both long and short powder columns and cases. Lots of discussions, lots of opinions. Lots of choices, and lots of decisions to make! Enjoy!
 
Fact, the 300WM outperforms the 300WSM in every aspect other than factory offerings. I still remember the quoted velocities on Winchester 300WM factory boxes being reduced to match the quoted 300WSM velocities overnight. I worked in a GS at the time and we got a huge laugh looking at old stock and comparing it to the new stock…80fps just vanished overnight.

Cheers.
 
MagnumManiac said:
Fact, the 300WM outperforms the 300WSM in every aspect other than factory offerings. I still remember the quoted velocities on Winchester 300WM factory boxes being reduced to match the quoted 300WSM velocities overnight. I worked in a GS at the time and we got a huge laugh looking at old stock and comparing it to the new stock…80fps just vanished overnight.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Before that they said similar things about the 308 Win and 30-06.
I still laugh at what they have done to the 220 Swift velocities. I still have early 60's Winchester 220 Swift ammo, that on my Magnetospeed actually run 4100 fps! Now any Swift ammo you find is listed at 22-250 velocities.

The velocities in every load book for everything out there have been dumbed down too! Sure am glad I have Quickload!
 
I keep coming back to the SA vs LA vs MA debate to see if I can determine the "best" application for a cartridge like a 7SAUM. There seems to be more leaning toward a LA due to opening up options for using longer high BC pills. The LA undoubtedly opens up options for switching barrels for other cartridges down the road. Weight savings and bolt throw differences are minimal considerations to me. So why did I decide to go with a 7SAUM when I already have a 280AI and 7RM? My justification was I wanted a shorter barrel 7mm for hunting suppressed in the thick stuff. The more I ponder some of the decisions I make, the more I wonder if I really have lost my mind. 🤪
 

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