Remington Long Range 5R... Have I lost my mind?

I dug this out of one of my old record books from June 2007. This was my first Rem Milspec. Shown are two 5 shot, 100 yard groups of factory !68gr Gold Medal Match and my matching hand load with 43grs of IMR4895/Win LR primer/Fed GM brass/168SMK. The bottom is the same hand load, 5 shots at 200 yards. I blew the last flyer because I got so excited with the first 4 shots. That rifle held this accuracy for 2400 rounds being shot routinely hot in competition. Also used it for my first LRH work by changing the scope out for a 3.5x10 Mark4 Mildot. I could use the Mildots to range white tails pretty well out to 500 yards. How technology has changed! It was bone stock including the trigger which I reduced from 5# to 3.5#. Had a Mark 4 Leupold 8x25 Mildot mounted. I'm on my third 308 Milspec.
 

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Remington made big changes in the action fitment a couple years ago, I really like the older action and especially the 5R and Sendero.
 
Buddy of mine has one in 308. While it is very accurate, the extraction is the worst I have ever seen; makes my Savages look like a dream. Heavy extraction seems to be a wide spread issue these days. Before you buy, check that out to see if it is afflicted.
 
Buddy of mine has one in 308. While it is very accurate, the extraction is the worst I have ever seen; makes my Savages look like a dream. Heavy extraction seems to be a wide spread issue these days. Before you buy, check that out to see if it is afflicted.

An Extraction:


Over the last twenty years I have had customers send me their Remington 700(s) to have them re-barreled . Some want them trued up some don't and some think they already have had them trued up. There is a difference in a "Trued action and a Trued and Timed action".
I have found that Many customers and gunsmiths really don't understand the meaning of Truing and Timing actions.The lapping of bolt lugs in most cases just makes the problems worse. Not saying I am an expert, but I personally don't think the current management at Remington understands "bolt timing" either. Since the Shot Show I have had about 25 customers "NEW" Remington 700(s) in my shop and most of them had little or no primary extraction. It seems the newer models are some of the worst cases. I recently went to the Biggest Sporting Goods Chain in America, I looked at every New Remington 700 they (approximately 25 guns) had up at the counter. From .223(s) Standards, and Magnums all in my opinion had "primary extraction issues" The bolt handles were between .052" and .059" clockwise out of timing. I called Remington Corporate three times trying to address the issues. On the third time I spoke with one of their "Gun Smiths", he got an action and I walked him through how "primary extraction" is supposed to work, at least how Mr. Walker (Remington 700 designer) intended them to work. The Remington Gun smith said he took notes and would report to his superiors what I had brought to his attention. I have not heard a word from Remington and don't expect to.
This week I received four PT&G two piece bolts. Following Dan Armstrong's Instructions to the letter, I Timed the new bolt handles and bolt bodies, then TIG welded them on. With a little filing and clean up they are a much improvement. Now when the bolt handle is lifted from battery and reaches the end of the helical to go into the bolt race the camming angles on the action and bolt handle engage and further the primary extraction until the cocking piece reaches its cocked position..

Today what was disturbing to me one of these actions had "already been Trued and Timed" by another "Reputable Rifle Smith". He went to the trouble to install a M-16 extractor, and Bush the bolt before re-barreling the rifle. The customer took the rifle back to the original gunsmith who had charged him a large sum of money for his services. The customer was having extraction problems. The original gunsmith refused to look at the rifle and said their was nothing wrong with it.The customer asked me to look at the rifle and see if I could find out what the problems was. With all the custom work that had been done to the bolt the bolt handle exhibited .032" gap between the front of the bolt handle and the trailing edge of the rear bridge. When the bolt handle was lifted from battery to the point the bolt lugs were out of the helix and into the bolt race the primary extraction cam surface completely missed each other by a good .065". The customer paid good money for crappy work. I have taken pictures of before and after for the customers, that I have addressed the "primary Extraction issues.

If you are going to have and action Trued up and Timed make sure the gunsmith doing your work has a good working understanding of primary extraction. There are some great gun smiths out there who fully understand Primary Extraction. Bolt handles can be silver soldered or TIG welded on, either method will work fine. A properly timed Remington 700 should have between .005" and .010" gap between the handle and the rear bridge. The primary extraction cams should meet at the point the bolt lugs leave the helix and enter the bolt race. This should be one smooth motion with no clicks. When the bolt has reached the end of the extraction cam the cocking piece should have found its home in the notch in the bolt body. If it is timed correctly the cocking piece will pass through the cut in the tang.


Nat Lambeth

In further reading of Nat's article and response to questions, he advised that not only does the above scenario apply solely to Remington 700 actions but to other Custom Actions as well!!
 
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Yea Nat has been all over this for quite a while. It is truly buyer beware and personally I would not buy a Remington these days. I can easily tune up Savages my self such that they are pretty smooth, and have a couple of Stillers that are very nice. Nothing is slicker than my old Tika Whitetail Hunter 300WM that is about 25 years old; crisp trigger and functional poly stock too (not tupperware). For a factory hunter another Tika would be my choice, with a stock that fit my style. In fact I would look for a used Whitetail Hunter and just rebarrel it.
 
Here's shots number 77-100 on my 5R .308 Win. This was a 24 shot hot-lap, there were no breaks shooting the group. This was also using brand new Lapua brass, Nosler 168 Custom Comps, Varget, and Fed 210M primers. Don't mind the slight-flier on the right of the group, I was trying to shoot-out the orange of the bullseye, but decided against it. If I had not made that dumb choice, that would have been around a 0.9xx group.

The consistency of the 700 5R rifles is amazing. Mine also shoots a wide variety of bullets and weights equally well. I have shot from 168 up to 210 VLD Bergers with it, and it still stacks 5 of them in there around 1/4-1/2", even at my current elevation of a round 250' ASL.

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