I want to invest in a new rifle that would be used for hunting deer and occasionally elk. I hope to have a rifle that isn't overly heavy and I want the recoil to be manageable so I can practice a lot, enough to at some point become proficient to 700 yards. I own a Remington 7 mag and although it's a great looking and shooting, I just not in love with it. I also own a Browning 26 nosler that has never been shot, but I was hoping for a stainless rifle due to hunting in wet weather often. My dilemma is just used one of those or sell and purchase something new. I don't know what caliber to even narrow it down to if I do that. I picked up the 26 Nosler because it was sold to me as having great downrange energy, but a friend of mine has nearly convinced me you need a 180+ grain 30 caliber for longer ranges due to slight factors that could make shot placement slightly off. I am interested in others thoughts or advise please. Thanks.
Need help with caliber choice
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Kmccord
Well-Known Member
Take a look at the 28 Nosler, if you want a long range Elk killer, you can load up with the 195 Berger's and take anything in North America. I have a custom made 28 Nosler from Alliance Custom Armory and with the 195 Berger, I am getting 3093 fps, and grouping .592" at 200 yards. I like the .284 caliber over the .308 caliber do to the BC you get with the .284.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Needing a 180+ 30 cal thing is just simply not true. If the thought is more energy, let me throw some numbers your way. At 400 yards, a 140 Berger going 3090 fps (my load in a .260 AI, you could get much more out of your 26 nosler) has right at 2100 ft-lb's of energy. A 300 win mag sending a 180 accubond at 3080 fps has 2445 ft lbs. It has 345 ft-lbs more, but that really doesn't matter because both of them have over 2000 ft-lbs, more than sufficient for any north american game. Now, lets stretch that out, to 800 yards.
.264 140@ 3090 = 1,430 ft-lb's
.308 180@ 3080 = 1,506 ft-lb's
That is only a difference of 76 ft-lbs....that is less than the energy of a .22 rimfire. An animal is not going to notice, and the extra energy will not make up for fouled shot placement.
And I didn't mention that the 6.5 has less drop, less wind drift, and less recoil than the 30 cal.
Now of course I did bias it towards the 6.5 cal, as I used a high bc bullet. If you changed the 30 cal to a 215 Berger going 2900 fps, it would be a totally different story. But my point is, if you can kill it with a 300 win mag shooting a 180, you can kill it just as well with a 140 going the same speed.
Now that that is out of the way...lets look at your needs. Deer and occasional elk, and you want to shoot it a lot and improve your skill. Well, there goes the 26 nosler, your barrel will be gone REALLY quick. Save that gun for hunting if you still want to keep it. The 7mm mag isn't terrible on barrels, but if you don't have a brake, 30 rounds can get painful for some people.
A smaller 6.5 or 7 may be a good choice. Creedmoore, 6.5x47, .260 or AI, or possibly 6.5x284, and there are also the options of 7mm-08, or possibly .280 rem or AI. None of these would be terrible on barrels, all would be sufficient for your hunting needs, all would reach the range you want, and none would have terrible recoil, even without a brake. Hope this helps
.264 140@ 3090 = 1,430 ft-lb's
.308 180@ 3080 = 1,506 ft-lb's
That is only a difference of 76 ft-lbs....that is less than the energy of a .22 rimfire. An animal is not going to notice, and the extra energy will not make up for fouled shot placement.
And I didn't mention that the 6.5 has less drop, less wind drift, and less recoil than the 30 cal.
Now of course I did bias it towards the 6.5 cal, as I used a high bc bullet. If you changed the 30 cal to a 215 Berger going 2900 fps, it would be a totally different story. But my point is, if you can kill it with a 300 win mag shooting a 180, you can kill it just as well with a 140 going the same speed.
Now that that is out of the way...lets look at your needs. Deer and occasional elk, and you want to shoot it a lot and improve your skill. Well, there goes the 26 nosler, your barrel will be gone REALLY quick. Save that gun for hunting if you still want to keep it. The 7mm mag isn't terrible on barrels, but if you don't have a brake, 30 rounds can get painful for some people.
A smaller 6.5 or 7 may be a good choice. Creedmoore, 6.5x47, .260 or AI, or possibly 6.5x284, and there are also the options of 7mm-08, or possibly .280 rem or AI. None of these would be terrible on barrels, all would be sufficient for your hunting needs, all would reach the range you want, and none would have terrible recoil, even without a brake. Hope this helps
I have a 6.5x300wsm that shoots 140 VLD at 3220 energy is 990 at 1,000. 30 Nosler at 3100 with 215 has 1660 energy at 1000 so there is a difference. I've shot alot of stuff with my 6.5x300wsm at some good distance all have dropped dead but for a strictly elk rifle a 30 cal with a 215 at 3100 I would give the nod too
I like the low recoil of 6.5's. But because you said lots of practice and getting proficient out to 700 yds. Maybe a 308 is what you need. You can practice all you want and the barrel will last many rounds. Recoil isn't bad and some guys are having incredible luck shooting the heavies out of there 308. If not then I would go with a 6.5X47, 260, or Creed and keep shots on elk under 400 yds.
djfriesen
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Is there a specific reason you don't like the 7mm? I'll admit I'm biased, as it's what I shoot, but it's a pretty proficient caliber for your intended use.
Depending on how heavy a bullet your gun can stabilize, you might not have enough energy for elk at 1000 yds, but 700 shouldn't be a huge problem.
My choice would be to take some of the money you would spend on a new rifle and put it into the 7mm (optics, muzzle brake, trigger, etc.). The rest goes in your pocket.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I addressed the fact that I wasn't using the most efficient bullet for a 30 cal, and he said he wanted recoil to be manageable, be able to shoot a lot, and build his skill to reach out to distance. A 30 Nosler is a very effective long range hunting round, and for just an elk rifle it's great, but he said mostly deer and the occasional elk, it poorly fits his criteria. It has very expensive brass, the bullets are expensive, it uses a ton of powder, will be somewhat harsh on barrels (maybe not as bad as a 6.5x284), and has way more recoil than many smaller options. And there are many smaller options that will kill big game animals out to 700 yards.
And I'm assuming you must live at very low elevation, because my .260 Ackley has 1163 ft-lbs of energy with a 140 vld at 1000 yards, and it is only going 3090 fps. But I do live at 6600 ft elevation and hunt higher than that.
No 3000 ft. I ran the numbers both at sea level you up the elevation and both go up.my point was if you shoot a 308 with heavies a 6.5 can't stack up on energy levels. I don't get caught up in energy numbers. But there is nothing like an elk getting smacked with a bigger bullet. I will not be trading my 6.5x300WSM in on another rifle soon. I have a 338 win. mag if I want something bigger.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Ya. My father and I have a 35 Whelen AI that is a 300-400 yard and in elk rifle, and it is just flat boring to hunt with. Bang....Whop....Dead elk. I think the larger frontal area of bullets has an effect with how energy is transferred. We are sending 225 grain SGK's at 2900 with that.
Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
Manageable recoil too be proficient at 700 yards for the occasional Elk , 30cal, mostly for deer.
It almost seems that your 7mm Mag is what your looking for.
There are millions of old blue barrle wood stock rifles up here and in Canada and across all of America, the trick that the good ones shot well is due to the fact that some folks do custom work overs on them.
Rust proof the iron, zero stress the action bedding, enlarge the wood stock channel for free floated barrel, add a Jewel trigger, find a scope that you like.
And shot the crap out of that rifle.
All my friends told me too not buy a 30/06 or 308 because there are better rifle calibers too choose from these days.
Neither one of these rifles are good for critter harvest, long range, or accuracy like the big bores.
I'm not falling for thst foolish talk since that what it is.
Not only did in buy a Remington 700 LR Heavy barrel in 30/06,,, I picked up a Remington SPS Heavy barrel Varmint in 308.
I'm shooting Hornady ELD-X Hunter 178gr'ers out of both for F Class open and FTR with 308.
At 2850 ft-per second muzzle gives those 178gr'ers just over 1758 ft-lbs energy at the 700M mark from the hot load 30/06.
The 308 loaded hot puts that lead down there at 1600 ft-lbs energy at the 600M mark.
Both rifles come in at just over 11 1/2 lbs with 26" barrels.
6.5-20 and 6-24 optics.
Accuracy is threw the roof for these two rifles,,, and they are able too put the run on the money in F-Class on top of that.
Find what you like for caliber, rifle, optics and get at it.
Your selection is endless and there is no perfect combination for every thing all the time as us humans keep changing our minds.
I know that the above 2 rifles are here to stay in my world since I own them cash down.
I've invested cash into them too make them all element consistant, and backed them both up with 2 optics each that can be switched out for F Class match or Harvesting.
3-9x50 BDC retrical for fast ranging critter getting of 40 to 140 yards with options too reach out there past the 400m mark if the critter allows the time for its taking,,, there is no need for Me too go this distance route since I let them come too me.
If not, no big deal since there is always a next time.
Manageable recoil stuff is out there, after mark crap can add quality too your unit if one chooses to.
I own 2 of the best rifles I've ever owned in all my years at this stage of the game.
I could care less what other folks think about my rifle and caliber selection.
When I'm tagging the iron silhouettes at 600+ meters and punching holes in the paper at 900M, it sure seems strange that these folks doing all the talking that morning seem too quit limit their words for the rest of the day.
PS: I ain't no pro or expert at this stuff, but when I set my mind and goals high for each shoot, I seem too pull it off.
The old saying is true.
"If you fail too plan, then your plan will fail.
Western Canada Pal Don
It almost seems that your 7mm Mag is what your looking for.
There are millions of old blue barrle wood stock rifles up here and in Canada and across all of America, the trick that the good ones shot well is due to the fact that some folks do custom work overs on them.
Rust proof the iron, zero stress the action bedding, enlarge the wood stock channel for free floated barrel, add a Jewel trigger, find a scope that you like.
And shot the crap out of that rifle.
All my friends told me too not buy a 30/06 or 308 because there are better rifle calibers too choose from these days.
Neither one of these rifles are good for critter harvest, long range, or accuracy like the big bores.
I'm not falling for thst foolish talk since that what it is.
Not only did in buy a Remington 700 LR Heavy barrel in 30/06,,, I picked up a Remington SPS Heavy barrel Varmint in 308.
I'm shooting Hornady ELD-X Hunter 178gr'ers out of both for F Class open and FTR with 308.
At 2850 ft-per second muzzle gives those 178gr'ers just over 1758 ft-lbs energy at the 700M mark from the hot load 30/06.
The 308 loaded hot puts that lead down there at 1600 ft-lbs energy at the 600M mark.
Both rifles come in at just over 11 1/2 lbs with 26" barrels.
6.5-20 and 6-24 optics.
Accuracy is threw the roof for these two rifles,,, and they are able too put the run on the money in F-Class on top of that.
Find what you like for caliber, rifle, optics and get at it.
Your selection is endless and there is no perfect combination for every thing all the time as us humans keep changing our minds.
I know that the above 2 rifles are here to stay in my world since I own them cash down.
I've invested cash into them too make them all element consistant, and backed them both up with 2 optics each that can be switched out for F Class match or Harvesting.
3-9x50 BDC retrical for fast ranging critter getting of 40 to 140 yards with options too reach out there past the 400m mark if the critter allows the time for its taking,,, there is no need for Me too go this distance route since I let them come too me.
If not, no big deal since there is always a next time.
Manageable recoil stuff is out there, after mark crap can add quality too your unit if one chooses to.
I own 2 of the best rifles I've ever owned in all my years at this stage of the game.
I could care less what other folks think about my rifle and caliber selection.
When I'm tagging the iron silhouettes at 600+ meters and punching holes in the paper at 900M, it sure seems strange that these folks doing all the talking that morning seem too quit limit their words for the rest of the day.
PS: I ain't no pro or expert at this stuff, but when I set my mind and goals high for each shoot, I seem too pull it off.
The old saying is true.
"If you fail too plan, then your plan will fail.
Western Canada Pal Don
dougduey
Well-Known Member
I honestly think you're set with calibers for what you want to do with them. The 26 Nosler is a laser with a 6.5mm bullet and you can kill deer all day with it, as well as elk (although shot placement will be more important). My dedicated elk rifle is a 300 WSM. It's light for humping up and down mountains while chasing elk all day. I had to put a break on it to make the recoil more manageable since it kicked the crap out of me and wasn't fun to practice with. Now, in the multiple elk camps that I've been in, the majority of the calibers were 7 Rem mag, 300 Win mag, 300 WSM and 30-06. The outfitters I've been around seem to really prefer the 300 RUM. I have a 7 STW which is basically the ballistic twin of the 28 Nosler. I love that rifle and wouldn't hesitate to elk hunt with it, my issue is it's just under 11 lbs while my 300 WSM is 8.5 lbs. It's easy to do the math on carrying those rifles all day. Not sure if this helped, but do what will make you happy and what will fit the niche you want.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Hard to beat the old venerable 7mm RemMag... It's been a favorite since it debuted back in '62, and it's still going strong!
I've been shooting them since I was 16, and my main deer hunting cartridge will always be a 7mm RemMag.
I've been shooting them since I was 16, and my main deer hunting cartridge will always be a 7mm RemMag.
