MT Elk Regulations Should Change!

9. If you are filming a hunt you are guiding that hunter therefore you should have a guides license and permits. Just because the compensation is in the form of clicks/sponsored content, doesn't really make it any different. It's still income being earned from taking the game.
 
Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but I'll throw my 2 cents in the pot.

MT's hunt season is redonkulous long. Do I like it, yes, but I think it's too long given the mass amounts of folks moving here (BTW we're full, move somewhere else) ;) . I think choose your weapon is a good place to start and I would like to see a special muzzle loader season added as well.

There should be open season on the predators here…and I mean all of them. DELIST GRIZZLIES!!! Poison wolves like we did the first time, and get ride of them completely. Cat tags should be over the counter with no quotas!!!

As far a nonresident hunters go, I never see them. I'm not sure where y'all hunt, but I don't see them. If you feel like nonresidents are a major problem in MT, you should try hunting in other states and see how bad it can be…Colorado comes to mind…

For all the folks claiming they have a right to hunt where ever because you pay Federal income taxes…this is just flawed thinking. States manage wildlife, fishing, and hunting for their respective state, not the Feds. If the Feds managed our hunting and fishing privileges, we probably wouldn't be allowed to hunt or fish at all….and talk about poor management. I mean Uncle Joe would run the show.
Joe Biden Falling GIF by GIPHY News
 
I've been thinking about the common complaints MT hunters have lately. We've got this ridiculously long season and tag holders can hunt all of it with all weapons. I think this will definitely change in the near future as hunter crowding is getting out of hand. I always thought our long season gave a working man a chance to feed his family because not everyone can be afield for a great length of time with work and all…. I think the generous season is being abused by one very certain parasitic type of hunter. These are the non-resident DIY who spend most or even ALL the of the season pressuring our game while we are at work. These are retirees, staying in their campers, hunting the front country old man style, basically driving all the game into private or deep in the hills. I think it would go a long long way to creating better opportunities for all hunters if we limited non residents to an 8 day window which they would need to apply for when they put in for a license.
Can we go back to the OP?

Am I understanding that many Montana hunters are seeing NR hunters on the regular spending 30+ days in the field to kill an animal? Is it also fair that many Montana hunters are seeing DIY NR's road hunting?

I ask because I hunted MT as an R hunter during the 80's and 90's quite a bit and rarely saw an NR plate.

I am a NR hunter in Montana now. The state sells me a NR deer tag OTC through their Come to Hunt program. I hunt with 3 other R hunters. Some of them hunt pretty close to the road due to age. A couple of us walk a ways to get away from the road and it's traffic. We are hunting BMA we have hunted for 15 yrs.

In their experience, they have never seen this semi-permanent road hunter. That said, our free campground was freaking packed this year for the first time. I only saw in state plates. We were guessing rent/housing inflation had pushed a lot of people into campers. These people weren't the drug addicted vagrants you see in the cities "camping". They were just people living in so-so trailers getting up after hunters and returning later than us. I assumed most were workers.

So, I guess i'm confused, what is the problem? The complaints I hear face-to-face are NR hunters pay a "stupid amount" for tags (I'm not sure I agree) and that Montana private & public lands are being tied up by outfitters, out of staters buying scenery to live on or just to own (but they just never consider BMA or hunting at all). I've only seen 1 big ranch sell. It went to a rich out-of-stater who probably never even had a thought about hunting. This plus corner crossing issues and other access issues are why I think access is the main issue.

Last, I find there are mature bucks around if you know Buck habitat. If you drive the roads, I think you are expecting the impossible as big bucks are not known to be out in the fields by the road. I find they live in the rugged country and move rarely except with a lot of hunting pressure.

What does managing for maturity over age look like? What is that policy? What state does it well?
 
What does managing for maturity over age look like? What is that policy? What state does it well?
If you have hunted Nevada you will see, especially there Elk herds, but even residents have to draw. N.M has alot of elk draw units as well, I hunted the Valle Vidal while managed for alot of elk over Quality I still probably saw 300+ elk and 50-60 bulls in the 6 days of hunting.
Colorado has some problems like Montana, but still has alot of Elk.
Wyoming has great elk hunting, the Horns are kinda like N.M managed more for quantity vrs Quality but I still saw some pretty decent bulls and alot of elk.
Like it or not between more predators and people montana game especially the M.D have plummeted. Theres only one quick answer gonna have to start managing people.
Nksmfamfp come over east I dont know were your hunting but there's plenty of NR plates.
I came to Montana for the first time as a NR hunter in 1989 , Montana never used to sell all there NR license and tags then about 15 years ago or so that all changed now its about a 3 year wait for 100% chance times have changed alot since I came here hunting for the first time.
I have yet to see an Area in MT that has the Elk like I saw in N.M, Wyoming and Nevada not even close, well maybe Yellowstone Park back in the hay day
 
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Sounds to me like there a lot of different issues at play.

Pushing more NR to Outfitter-only hunts only raises the cost of hunting for Residents. Tag sales are matches by Pittman funds, be thankful NR pay what they do so the Resident share of the matching funds is less.

If you really want to increase access to hunting it is ALL about the money. Raise Resident tag prices to NR levels. This would increase PR matched funds and allow the increased funds to be used to pay land owners for access for public use instead of Outfitters paying for the access. The landowners deserve to be compensated for their property use. If you don't want Outfitters locking up all the good private land, give the State the funds to be a Public Outfitter.

If NR hunters are poor quality, raise the quality, not the price. Require a Montana NR hunting education to address private land etiquette, etc.

If NR are not allowed to visit Montana to hunt and hunting is only available for Residents, does anyone believe this will NOT encourage more immigration to Montana, thus increasing housing prices, etc?

Cost of living and hunting are separate but connected issues. Housing/taxes can be separately addressed from hunting regulations. Do not allow non-residents to own land, only allow long term leases like Switzerland does. Vote on the local level to reduce or eliminate big city quality of life expenses that liberal immigrants love to spend tax dollars on. Street lights - not needed, vote no. Giant public schools with sports complexes befitting Big 10 Universities - vote no. Use your local government to arm the local businesses and residents against cross border undercutting. Switzerland greatly taxes French wine and cheese to protect local produces. What is Montana government doing to protect Montana way of life? Unfortunately it sounds like you are getting a taste of life in the eastern half but fortunately have the precedent and time to correct it. Zoning can fix much of this. Require poor infrastructure. Want to build a new neighborhood of mansions and want road improvements... to bad, zoned for gravel roads to avoid fancy cars.

As for the western hunting, there are fewer and fewer hunter and we DO need more to combat the Liberal Urbanites. The hunter crowding in my opinion is from more hunters are hunting more and more states and fewer are staying local. Want better odds? Why not 1st in, last up? Got an Elk tag last year, drop to the back of the line this year.
 
Montana never used to sell all there NR license and tags then about 15 years ago or so that all changed now its about a 3 year wait for 100% chance
MT started selling out of Big Game Combo tags in '04 and it was roughly an every-other year draw (except perhaps guaranteed outfitter tags) until 2011 when the residents voted to eliminate guaranteed outfitter tags. Prior to '11, the NR big game combo tags were $660.25. After the guaranteed outfitter tags were eliminated, the price for all NR big game combos went to ~$1K

From '11-'16 draw odds were 100% due mostly to the price increase. Since '18 it's been every-other year for us to draw. Yes, we buy the pref-point.

Eventually WY, CO, ID, etc caught up to MT's NR tag pricing. Additionally lots of folks likely got sick of point-creep when MT had tags left over.
 
Its not a every other year for 100% draw in Montana NR my nephew never drew again this year 2nd year in a row. I know people who it took 3 pts to draw.
All the NR i know buy pts every year.
 

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🧐 I'll look closer. Perhaps a more pronounced muzzle loading season is what I'm looking for. For example, CO has a draw only muzzle loader season during the elk rut. That seems like a cool hunt to me.
MT's is after the general season, I believe is resident's only, and doesn't allow inlines or scopes.
 

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