Lightweight steel vs carbon fiber barrels

[packgoatguy]

I know the subject of steel barrels vs carbon fiber is oft debated... but I haven't found a comprehensive comparison between ultralight or lightweight steel barrel contours/fluted steel barrels vs CF barrels... for accuracy and weight purposes.

For example, i have a Kimber Mountain Ascent, with fluted barrel is a very lightweight rifle in a short action (sub 5lbs). However, while the first shot on a cold barrel is consistent (sub half MOA if targets layered one on top over each other over time), it tends to wander after the 3rd shot, and 5 shot groups without allowing full cooling are not great at all. I assume this is due to the lightweight profile and flutes doesnt keep the poi constant when it heats up a bit. Would a CF barrel of a similar weight fix this?

I see a lot of relatively lightweight hunting rifles using CF barrels and Titanium actions and CF Stocks to get into the 6-7lb bare rifle weight range (Fierce, Christensen Arms, etc) ... but others like MG ARMS, NULA, Oregonsmithing, etc offer 5-6lb rifles using all steel barrels, and all steel actions with Kevlar Stocks. Is there going to be a difference in accuracy between the two approaches? What about combining the weight savings of the Kevlar Stock seen in a lot of lightweight rifles with the Titanium action and CF barrel?

Not really looking for a debate on the cost of components... I get it that some options are cheaper than others... just looking for ultimate effectiveness.

Also, any lightweight option I shoot with a break, so recoil isn't a major consideration either. Just looking for what will give the most weight savings and most consistent groups.

 

[rgvt4]

The pencil steel barrel will be lighter. As you stated above it affects accuracy when heated up. The carbon is more ridged and is not effected by heat like steel. So yes it should fix it.

 

[lancetkenyon]

For a strictly hunting rifle? Use what you like. You should only need 1 shot, maybe 2.
If you plan on shooting strings, heavier contour or CF.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

No matter how you slice it a carbon barrel is always just a pencil barrel with more mass wrapped around it.

As far as accuracy goes I'm not totally convinced pencil barrels walk when they heat up only because they are warmer. I think it's possible that

1. It's harder to have a perfect load for a pencil barrel harmonics wise
2. Pencil barrels introduce mirage issues that aren't as pronounced with thicker/carbon barrels.

I believe accuracy international found POI issues with fluted barrels that they could not replicate with nonfluted barrels.

 

[the hunter]

Heat is bad for thin barrels but stiffness is why a lot of F-class and BR shooters like the heavy barrels, less harmonic vibration with the thicker barrel.

 

[Gamesniper19]

Having seen the CF barrel manufacturing process first hand and then witnessed military testing, I can attest to a few things

1. A CF Barrel of the same contour as steel will weigh significantly less, usually about 40-50% less
2. A CF barrel has less harmonic wave signature and if manufactured correctly, it will move heat more efficiently than a steel barrel of the same contour. The key is the manufacturing process and the resin
3. A CF barrel will sometimes have more mirage than a steel barrel - thin steel barrels will POA shift under heavy strings and high heat. They just do.
4. A CF barrel will POA shift under very heavy strings of fire but significantly less than steel. In some cases it will be so nominal that unless you are shooting >1000 yards at MOA targets, you may not recognize the shift
5. Pencil barrels are designed for weight savings and not repeatable long string accuracy. If you are going to shoot strings, opt for a #4 or thicker contour
6. If you are building a super lightweight mountain rifle, go with the lightest components you can. In this case it may make sense to go with a #2 steel barrel as it will be lighter than a sendero contour CF barrel of the same length. It is likely you may shoot 1 or 2 times as stated and saving the 3-5 lbs over a standard rifle makes sense - just know that if you build a 6lb rifle in a magnum caliber - OUCH

 

[packgoatguy]

Having seen the CF barrel manufacturing process first hand and then witnessed military testing, I can attest to a few things

1. A CF Barrel of the same contour as steel will weigh significantly less, usually about 40-50% less
2. A CF barrel has less harmonic wave signature and if manufactured correctly, it will move heat more efficiently than a steel barrel of the same contour. The key is the manufacturing process and the resin
3. A CF barrel will sometimes have more mirage than a steel barrel - thin steel barrels will POA shift under heavy strings and high heat. They just do.
4. A CF barrel will POA shift under very heavy strings of fire but significantly less than steel. In some cases it will be so nominal that unless you are shooting >1000 yards at MOA targets, you may not recognize the shift
5. Pencil barrels are designed for weight savings and not repeatable long string accuracy. If you are going to shoot strings, opt for a #4 or thicker contour
6. If you are building a super lightweight mountain rifle, go with the lightest components you can. In this case it may make sense to go with a #2 steel barrel as it will be lighter than a sendero contour CF barrel of the same length. It is likely you may shoot 1 or 2 times as stated and saving the 3-5 lbs over a standard rifle makes sense - just know that if you build a 6lb rifle in a magnum caliber - OUCH

I also shoot a Tikka SS Superlite 300 Win Magnum, and while I would certainly be a handful normally, with a good break on it, the 6lb rifle kicks less than my son's unbreaked savage 308.

 

[packgoatguy]

Side by side, what will be the weight differences between a lightweight "pencil" or fluted steel barrel vs a the lightest carbon fiber barrel options? Like the Proof Sendero Lite version or something similar?

 

[packgoatguy]

Heat is bad for thin barrels but stiffness is why a lot of F-class and BR shooters like the heavy barrels, less harmonic vibration with the thicker barrel.

Do you get similar harmonic vibration and heat transfer from the CF barrels as you would expect from a heavier bull or other steel barrel contour?

 

[hunter67wa]

There was a thread similar to this one on here and a smith rogered up a great explanation on the differences if you can find it. I should have printed it as it was the best explanation of the barrels Ive heard.

 

[KyCarl]

Seems that if you compare equal Weights not Diameters the CF would be stiffer than
steel at the same weight. I have never cared for pencil barreled rifles so CF would be a good option.

 

[the hunter]

SNIPER 101 Part 7 - Rifle Vibrations & Harmonics EXPLAINED - Rex Reviews - YouTube

 

[Gamesniper19]

Seems that if you compare equal Weights not Diameters the CF would be stiffer than
steel at the same weight. I have never cared for pencil barreled rifles so CF would be a good option.

If weight is the only measure, yes.

 

[Gamesniper19]

Side by side, what will be the weight differences between a lightweight "pencil" or fluted steel barrel vs a the lightest carbon fiber barrel options? Like the Proof Sendero Lite version or something similar?

There is no set rule in how much weight you save with a Sendero light versus a Sendero from PROOF. Generally with a 24 inch barrel its about 6 ounces between the two contours.
A 24 inch PROOF sendero weighs about 3 lbs where an example Bartlein of approximately the same contour and size weighs 4.6 lbs - which is about 35% heavier