how hot is to hot?

givemeashot

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Aug 21, 2005
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I have a 300 weatherby vanguard. How many shots should I be able to take before the barrel is hot enough to start affecting accuracy? I have noticed that after 5 or 6 shots it starts fading to the right. Is this normal?
 
Man I dont know how thick your barrel is but I dont even keep shooting my 25-06 AI after 3,
you dont want your barrel hot enough to mark cattle! And the 06 only takes 60gns of powder.
 
Do a search on barrel cooling. Although I agree using alcohol is the best approach - I've now gone to pea-ing down the pipe. It not only cools the barrel (evaporation) but the ammonia in my urine removes the copper fouling. Just don't close the bolt before you zip up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
From a barrel wear stand point, if you can not hold the barrel with your bare hand without discomfort, your barrel is to hot!!

With the big magnums, there is no need for more then three shot strings. IF you want to shoot five shots or more, let the barrel cool after the third shot to help limit throat errosion as much as possible.

Kirby Allen(50)
 
[ QUOTE ]
From a barrel wear stand point, if you can not hold the barrel with your bare hand without discomfort, your barrel is to hot!!
Kirby Allen(50)

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a friend who needs to read this post. He has a factory Savage synthetic stock 300WM. It will shoot factory ammo into .5" at 100 yds. He will shoot and shoot when the barrel is so hot it would blister the skin just to touch it. I keep warning him that he is going to trash his barrel. I hope he listens before the barrel is ruined.
I have always used the same test as Kirby.
 
I wait till the barrel is either ambient temperature or barely warm before I shoot another group.

I always bring several rifles to the range so that allowing for adequate cooling time isn't a problem.
 
It depends on how well the barrel was stress relieved and fitted to the receiver. If it's not stress relieved correctly, heat buildup will cause those stress lines to bend the barrel. And the receiver's got to be faced square to the tenon thread axis.

Barrels properly stress relieved and fitted can go over 40 shots fired 20 to 30 seconds apart. The most I've fired with a 30 caliber magnum burning 65 grains of powder with 190- and 200-gr. bullets is 33 shots about 25 seconds apart. Fired 3 sighters, then fifteen 190's which centered about 5 inches above where fifteen 200's centered that followed. Each bullet weight shot inside 6 inches at 1000 yards. That barrel was pretty hot; couldn't touch it for more than a second or so.

Military rifle teams testing their match conditioned 7.62mm NATO M1 and M14 service rifles from accuracy cradles have put 24 shots in 60 seconds inside 5 inches at 600 yards. Quite normal with good ammo and again, barrels that are properly fitted and stress relieved.

US government arsenals loading match grade 30 caliber ammo would test each lot by firing 100 to 200 shots about 30 seconds apart into a 600-yard target. Good ammo lots would have a mean radius of about 2 inches and the entire group would be less than 7 inches. How hot do such test barrels get? I don't know but I can imagine.

Lots of folks put 25 to 30 shots with cartridges of this ilk in 20 to 25 minutes of time and there's not one bit of zero changing. They've been doing it for decades. If a barrel can't do that, something's wrong with its metalurgy or the way it was fit to the receiver.
 
Bart B,

Your telling us you put 15 190 gr bullets into a 6" group at 1000 yards and then followed that up by another 15 200 gr bullets into another 6" group at 1000 yards????

If you could do that consistantly you would run the table in the 1000 yard BR match world.

All I know is that there is no barrel maker around that I know of that would condone that kind of sustained shooting with their barrels and offer any replacement policies when the throat was burnt out in a few hundred rounds.

Unlike the military, we have to pay for our own barrels and also to get them fitted. I guess we pay for theirs as well for that matter.

I can not imagine putting that kind of abuse into a barrel that was a 30 cal magnum or similiar type of round. Not only are you wasting barrel life at an expodential rate once the barrel reaches a certain temp, unless your in comp, why would you do such things to a fine barrel.

And if your in comp, why in the world would you select a 30 cal magnum????

YOu must be one hell of a shot my friend, putting 30 rounds into a 6" groups is something to write home about!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Kirby don't you know that the BR boys don't know what the hell their doing any way !! or so we're about to hear

I have shot a 243 with a medium Palma barrel several dozen times in a row on alot ofr ground rats it got so hot that the oil in the wood oil finished stock was smoking and it was free floated. That barrel diden't even last one trip ans was ruined after about 300 rounds , it has to be set back 3" to clean up the throat.
thats when I was young and dumb-er and speed was everything
that load was running a 55gr B-Tip oiut at over 4200fps!!

Now , if the barrel is so hot I can't rest the inside of my wrist on it at the cahmber throat area for ever then its to hot , this is generaly about 3-4 round with a 300 Win mag.
 
JDJones,

Thats about what I would say was enough shooting with a 300 Win Mag, 3-4 rounds and let her cool!!

I need to find out what barrels old Bart is using and try to put them out of business with some bad press!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Any barrel that will take that kind of abuse and keep shooting for 2000 rounds will put me out of business for sure!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just kidding Bart, got to give you a hard time now and again, its just so hard not to most of the time but its all in fun!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
It is very difficult to shoot big magnums without the barrel getting very hot in THREE rounds. No one has mentioned just how much the copper fouling accelerates when the barrel gets scorching hot, either.

Also, when the temps outside is 80* or more, it may take a long time for a barrel to cool, it it will cool at all.

When I am testing a few rounds, I cool the barrel by dousing the outside of the barrel with rubbing alcohol using a sopping wet rag. It will only take a couple of minutes to cool a hot barrel on a Hot 7 STW after 3 rounds. You have to oil a blued barrel afterwards.

When I was shooting p. dogs, I took a fellow on a dog hunt that had been a top engineer for Rockwell. He also did a lot of R and D for Federal, Browning, Anchutz, adn Pac Nor, in fact, he was the guy that did the initial development for the 17 HMR. Anyway,we were shooting 600- 1000 rounds a day on p. dogs swapping out guns to let the barrels cool. He thought that waiting to let the barrels cool was a joke because most often, even though we had rotated through 6 guns, the barrels were still not cool. When we got home, he cam up with a simple barrel cooling system using water down the barrel, which ended up being far better than the alcohol due to expense. 10 oz of water down the barrel and it is dead cold. We followed the water with 4 dry patches that were fitted on a tight Punch type of jag, dry the chamber, back to shooting. We used this process on SS barrels and chrome moly never seeing any affect on accuracy or barrel life. The water method was used for about 10 years or so shooting dogs, 4 two week trips a year in areas where the shooting was normally 600-1000 rounds of centerfire a day per person.

It has always amazed me that no one has ever tried this method of cooling their barrels, it is so simple it is stupid with never any negative effects on equipment.

Sitting at a bench, pounding the rounds down the tube to the point to where you can not see the target due to barrel heat, destroys the best of barrels...use some kind of barrel cooling system.

It takes about 3 minutes to cool and patch out a barrel using water from start to finish...very little inconvience. An added bonus in using the water system is that you are pushing 4 dry patches down the tube and there is some cleaning going on at that time, we felt as if our accuracy was maintained longer when we started cooling with water due to the patchiing out of the barrel.

We used custom guns on our dog shooting, mostly Hart barrels in 223, 6mm Rem, and 243 AI. Using 29" Max Heavy Varmint contours, we could set back the barrel at least once or twice. We eventually went to the 30" unturned blanks and would set the barrel back at least 4 times, usually after 1800-2000 hard rounds of 243 AI. At that point, the leade had only grown to the point to where we needed to cut off 3/4"-1 1/4" of the barrel.

The only reason that I mention the round count etc. above is that everyone is scared of what water would do to a barrel...it is really wierd how even the best and most informed of shooters have not try this method, and I was skeptical myself in the beginning.

I hope that this helps some of you keep those good barrels shooting longer.
 
"fiftydriver"

"And if your in comp, why in the world would you select a 30 cal magnum????"

For 1000 yd BR, a boat load of guys use them in the heavy gun class..... 308 baer 300 boo boo? 300 wm, 300 weatherby ai ect.

and I know that Richard Schatz 1000 yd BR record holder cool's his barrels when he practices with water and a few dry patches and he has lots of records to show for it...I haven't tryed it yet but I would agree that it should work very well ...and a good post to you keithcandler...
 
6BR4ME2,

My comments were directed toward Bart B talking about 600 yard shooting which I assume is in a Highpower format not 1000 yard BR shooting comp style.

For 600 yard shooting why would you want a 30 cal magnum? There is no need for this.

1000 yard BR shooting is a totally differnet game in my opinion. You give up some barrel life for superior ballistic performance and as such you sacrifice barrel life as a result.

Most serious 1000 yard BR shooters have no problem replacing barrels after each season or every other season so this is really not a concern. Most service rifle competitions are fired with working rifles and as such barrel life is of greater importance.

I am not sure how many shots are fired in 1K BR shooting per round???

Anyway, my comments were directed to the 600 yard and under comp styles that Bart B was referring to, not 1K.

Kirby Allen(50)
 
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